Alternative Treatments for Peyronie's Disease

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j

A drug called Imiquimod has been suggested for use against Dupuytren's and Peyronie's. Here's a link to a synopsis of the article, which appeared in a dermatology journal.

http://www.highbeam.com/library/docfree.asp?DOCID=1G1:130058395&ctrlInfo=Round19%3AMode19b%3ADocG%3AResult&ao=

This isn't really new but I just heard about it. Apparently it is just a suggestion and no actual study has been done. However I think Imiquimod is a commonly available prescription drug - we wouldn't be waiting until doomsday for FDA approval.  And it's already being used on keloids, which are similar formations of collagen.


BlackEyes

wwww.pyrotab.com

please tell me that this crap is a joke...supposedly theyve been around for three years


The link on this post was edited to make it an inactive link.  An active link would actually allow a search bot to crawl the link to their site and it would help improve their search engine rankings.  Since it is clear these people are preying on others, I wanted to make sure we don't inadvertantly help them.

Hawk

j

It's not a joke, it's a scam. It only looks like a joke because it's so incredibly hokey.  I particularly liked the link to the "clinical study" which brings up a popup saying it's "soon to be posted here".  Holding my breath...

In the good old days you could do a domain name search and with a few minutes of Googling maybe find out who was behind a site like this, which incidentally was apparently registered only a week ago. Now, these guys hide behind outfits like DomainsByProxy.com, a company that registers a domain for you and protects your identity. That's where this domain is registered.


Hawk

Thanks Blackeyes for pointing this out.  In addition to not having anything under their clinical study, they 100% guaranteed it.  TO DO WHAT??? NOTHING!  

QuoteHad the effectiveness of Pyrotab not been proven beyond any doubt, it would not be possible for us to make such a bold claim.

Here are their "bold claims":
QuoteThere is absolutely no alternative to its unique formula; it is a treatment; Thousands of patients have been successfully treated

A very carefully worded way of saying nothing.  A unique formula is some guy mixing honey and goat urine in a boot.  If he was successful in dumping it on 100 guys heads then he successfully treated them.  No mention of a successful outcome for the patient, or any outcome.  The reader is to assume those claims are in the study and that this all-important study is the one thing that somehow did not make it on to this slickly produced website.

One more reprehensible fraud trying to prey on those they consider vulnerable.  

We need to do what we can to try to cause some grief for these people.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

j

Pyrotab's mailing address, 26 York Street London W1U 6PZ, is actually the address of a company called "W1 Office" which provides what's called "virtual office" services - the current term for a mail drop and a phone that gets answered by someone.

W1's web site makes it sound good: "Just £60/month! A prestigious W1 London business address, a dedicated London 0207 telephone number with calls answered live in "Your Company Name"...

Of course, they're not going to give out names. But maybe we could call and set up a meeting meeting in one of W1's conference rooms, introduce ourselves to Mr. Pyrotab when he shows up have a nice chat.



Hawk

Well, I guess the FDA has no interest in them!
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

BlackEyes

"22,000 patients treated successfully"
i guess pyrotab was passively trying to gloat they ripped off 22,000 hopeless sob's..
i think we should invite these ppl to chat to tell them we are interested, and then completely rip on them...wait i got an idea from this...
maybe we should start a "ripoff" thread of hokey-pokey crap like this  

ComeBacKid

Does anyone know if there is any evidence besides that one study that shows that Aceyl L Cartinine is effective in treating Peyronies Disease?  I am currently taking these pills as well as Tim, and soon I will be starting the IONO treatments like he is.  The pill bottle just says the pills take fat and convert it into energy, but says nothing about breaking up scar tissue, does anyone know anything about these pills and the theory behind how they work?

ComeBackid

Liam

I found this transdermal product used for bodybuilding.  It seem to have ALL of the ingredients I am looking for.  Here are the specifics as I have them now.

Supplement Facts:
Serving Size: 10 Sprays (5mL)
Servings Per Container: 48

Amount Per Serving:

Proprietary Blend: 500mg
L-Arginine
Arginine AKG
DiArginine Malate
Citruline Malate
Acetyl-L-Carnitine
Adenosine TriPhosphate
Adenosine MonoPhosphate
Nicotinic Acid

Other Ingredients:
Water, isopropyl alcohol, benzyl alcohol, propylene Glycol.

Directions: Apply 10 sprays to muscles being exercise 30 minutes prior to workout. Allow to dry 3 to 5 minutes. Apply again 30 minutes after workout to maximize recovery. Product may be applied on off days to maintain vacularity.




The website is:
http://www.1fast400.com/p1772_NO_Infuse_Legal_Gear.html

I am Not endorsing this product.  Only passing along something I found interesting.
"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

kevin

I thought the prevailing opinion of forum members is that transdermals such as verapamil do not reach the tissue where Peyronies Disease  plaque is located.  Studies have found this, and there have only been a few anecdotal reports of "some" improvement (which a percentage of patients will experience even with no treatment).  So does it make any sense to simply change what agent is to be delivered transdermally?   I guess some may believe that locally applying the medication as close to the site as possible is more likely than oral ingestion to partially reach the plaque.  In that case, utilizing Ionto or DMSO may theoretically increase that chance of a transdermal product getting through and achieving results. But wouldn't there be some documented evidence of that by now?  

Hawk

Thanks to Liam for introducing this topic because I think it is very worthy of discussion.

I have a well developed skepticism of any information on almost any topic.  The following are my thoughts based only on that skepticism.  These are things I am thinking through so I will share them.

On the surface this sounds like a good, logical idea and it may well be but:

They state that systemic L-Arginine is impractical and that many drugs are delivered transdermally.  Strangely, many of the examples they then offer are in fact systemic applications such as: birth control patches, diabetics etc.  The birth control patch does not act on the butt cheek it is affixed to.  The same is true with nicotine patches and others.

I know lots of diabetics.  This is a disease that is well researched and funded.  I know of none that use transdermal L-Arginine to improve circulation to the feet and would like to see full details of any studies that indicate it works as they claim.  This would be a huge break through to a large group.

They claim that "your muscles will receive a 32% - 35% increased blood flow with no real documentation, just their statement.

Having spent more than my fair share of time with body building books, magazines, and discussions with body builders, and trainers, I have tried to get down to the scientific.  I know of no industry so full of hype, false claims, misleading ads, and BS as the body building industry.  I also know of no group more willing to experiment with unproven and possibly dangerous products for the mere hope of "improving"

What "draws this product into the muscles"?


Assuming it is drawn into the muscles and increases blood flow:

This product also contains isopropyl alcohol, benzyl alcohol.  Are these also drawn into the body?

Would all the structures and tissue in the penis respond to this product in the same way the long voluntary skeletal muscle would?  Or could some penile structures be harmed by some of these substances?


I am interested in any discussion on this topic and any reports from those that consider the issues and decide to use it.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Liam

Hawk,  

I found this about transdermal l-arginine  and diabetes.  Their conclusion:

We conclude that in the patients we studied with diabetes, treatment of their feet with a transdermal preparation of L-arginine improved both flow and temperature, and this effect was surprisingly long lasting. Such improvement of compromised local blood flow should be beneficial and could reduce the complications of the disease.

Here is a link to the site.

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/27/1/284

Again, I am not endorsing nor am I advocating the use of any product.  This is for discussion only.




"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

Hawk

Liam,

Thanks for a very interesting 2004 study and link.  I also appreciate your first disclaimer about not promoting this product but there is no need to be too worried about that.  We don't think you are a shill and I have no problem with anyone promoting anything as long as they are up front about it and they are willing to answer direct questions.  

Thanks again!

Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Liam

These are a few of the articles I've been reading related to topical l-arginine.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/466972   -Diabetic Feet

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12135233&dopt=Abstract   - Spinal Cord Injury

http://www.bjs.co.uk/bjsCda/cda/microJournalArticleDetail.do?DOI=10.1002%2Fbjs.4182&issueDOI=10.1002%2Fbjs.v90%3A9&vid=2    -relaxation of interior anal sphincter

There are plenty of articles and websites that are non scientific promoting some sex creme.  I disregard that type.   I don't know if it beneficial for Peyronies Disease.  I am interested in it and am trying it out as I stated in an earlier post.  I am using it in conjunction with traction.

"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

SteveW

Liam,
Thanks for the links.  Good info.  My analysis, at least at this very moment?  l-arginine couldn't hurt?
20 years of Peyronie's / ED
Tried pills, VED, Verapamil injections, traction, Trimix & more.
Implanted 2/18/21. AMS cx 18cm + 3 RTE. Gay, 67.
Dr Etai Goldenberg, St Lous, MO
Now having lots and lots of wonderful sex!

Liam

The one I use is NO Infuse by Legal Gear. Body builders spray this on the body part they are working on  (add your own joke here).  I decided on it after comparing ingredients.  I assume NO is Nitric Oxide and not saying "no" it will not "infuse".  I say this because I am not sure of the transdermal "vehicle".  

It does not dry out the skin nor irritate me.  But test a small area not so close to home before using.  I use enough to cover the area, not the ten pumps they recommend (add your own joke here).

There is another product, marketed as a "male enhancement" creme.  Its called Maxoderm.  Friends from the gym use it like NO Infuse.  It may have a better transdermal effect.  I may order some and compare.  If I do, be assured I will post any results or lack of results.  I was reminded to add this product by the ad on the bottom of the page linked below.

As everyone knows,  I'm just a guy experimenting.  Research and decide for yourself before trying anything.

Here is a link to one site that sells it.  There are others.  This one was just the first that came up on Google.

http://www.supplements101.com/store/NO_Infuse_p/legnoinfuse.htm
"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

Tim468

NO is a short-lived molecule, and is not what is in the product. Rather, they have a list of "NO promoters" that are either precursors or chemicals that can "donate" NO to a molecular reaction. The problem is that there is no data presented that demonstrate penetration into tissue. The diabetic data is encouraging, though, that topically applied chemicals can get in - the question is simply how deep can they go?

I am now about 25% of the way through using my more cncentrated verapamil iontophoresis, and so far it is is disappointing - no results to speak of so far. I wil keep you all posted.

Tim
52, Peyronies Disease for 30 years, upward curve and some new lesions.

mark501

Hopeful, this is in response to your request.  Re: my post of June 23, 2006 concerning my experience with topical verapamil. Magnesium sulfate , like verapamil is a calcium channel blocker. The difference I believe is that MS is a natural substance. It was discovered in spring water in Surrey, England in the 1800's. MS is NOT a cure for Peyronies Disease however it has helped me with some of the Peyronies Disease symptoms; hinge effect and dents. It was a very gradual improvement. I have only been able to find one source for this topical version of epsom salt. They are Kirkman Labs of Lake Oswego, Oregon. I have no financial interest in this company. Also it's important to say that they do not sell this product as a treatment for Peyronies Disease. It comes in a 4oz. (113 grams) jar. Each gram has l00 mg of MS. No product helps everyone ;I don't think this is an exception. The good news is that it is very inexpensive. good luck to all.        http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/minerals/magnesium/Mag_Sulf_Cream_Spec225.html        

ComeBacKid

Mark501,

How many times did you apply the cream to your penis?  How much did you apply?  How long did it take before you noticed any results?  

ComeBackid

mark501

I began using it in my 5th month of Peyronies Disease. Shortly afterwards, the progression stopped. At that point I was in pretty good shape with less than a 5 degree curvature and one very small dent. The progression remained stopped until my 11th month when I had hernia surgery. I also had a lipoma disected from spermatic cord. (a benign lipoma; separated from cord but not removed). Shortly after surgery 30 degree bend to left. The rest of story on June 23 post. I normally use 2-3 grams twice a day. I have not been consistent in my usage but use almost every day. There have been times in the last 2 years when I have used alcohol-free liquid propolis mixed in with the MS. I can't say that this did any good. Just don't know. What an interesting smell propolis has  in liquid form! On the page that Kirkman sends with the product it says: "recommended usage: 1 gram of cream per application usually to the back, shoulders, though any extensive body area is satisfactory" "cream may be applied 3 to 4 times daily or as recommended by your physician" One thing to consider is that some of the preparation will rub off onto your underwear so perhaps a bit more is called for each time. Mark 501

mark501

I received E-mail from Kirkman Labs. They say: "creams are manufactured by creating an emulsion, a 2 phase process which incorporates water soluble ingredients with oil soluble ingredients by the use of surfactants called emulsifiers. MS generally breaks down  most emulsions causing them to separate into layers thereby  becoming ineffective. Our formula handles the high concentrations of MS and is still very bioavailable. The glyceryl di laurate is the ingredient which makes  this possible. The chemistry revolving around liposomal formulations is such that the MS would break down the anionic emulsifier used to make liposomal gel so this type of formulation is not feasible."I appreciate their response & still think its worth a try. Mark

Fighter

Hi Mark501,
Dose Magnesium Sulfate actual penetrate the skin and get into the plaque like verapamil? What is the carrier agent that does that???

mark501

Fighter, They are saying that one of the ingredients, glyceryl di laurate makes it possible for MS to be "very bioavailable". They are not claiming that it penetrates into the plaque. I repeat they do not sell this product as a treatment specifically for peyronie's. I'm sure it does  penetrate the skin at least. It has certainly helped me. As I said before this is a topical version of epsom salt. When someone adds epsom salt to their bathwater it does penetrate the skin to relax muscles. If you google epsom salt there is a lot of info available on the web. If I find a particularly good website on this, I'll let you know. good luck, Mark

howcanthisbe

Mark did the Magnesium Sulfrate help your dents and hinge? Can it help restore grith also? What  are the side effects? Is it even possible to get the dents out of your penis? Thanks

mark501

Howcanthisbe, As I said before, I do believe the MS was the main reason for the improvement of dents & the hinge effect. At one time I had 2 dents on each side. Strangely enough, they were not opposite each other. The two on the right side are gone. On the left side both are over 50% reduced in size. This took about one year to take place; always very gradual. You asked about girth. I don't know the answer to that. I have had no side effects. This product is very concentrated so I wouldn't go too far beyond the instructions that come with it. They provide a l gram cup with the product. You might want to consider consulting with your doctor about dosage. Each gram of  this emulsion contains 100mg of MS. I told the 2 urologists that I've seen that I was using this product. They did not object to my using it. They also did not direct me to use a cerain amount. In the earlier stages of Peyronies Disease it seemed to help with stopping the progression of symptoms however that is not so much the case in later stages with me. The plaque that I have seems to be constantly changing. Mark

howcanthisbe

Mark so your still getting worse? Thats good to hear it made 2 dents go away. Im only 23, do you think that makes me chance of recovery better? I just dont wanna progress any further, im too young to be dealing with this crap...... hopefully since it was a drug induced side effect it wont get any worse or may even get better. I know nobody knows, thats what sucks so bad about this condition. I hope im one of the lucky ones that dont get it so bad.

mark501

howcanthisbe, One big advantage you have over me is that you are very young. I bet there will be a great solution for you. It is tough at any age to wait for a new effective treatment to be announced. In my situation the main issue is curvature at about 30% upward. Everything else is operational: testosterone level, rigidity, sensativity & ejaculation. good luck, Mark

howcanthisbe

Thanks Mark. I sure hope I get better or at least dont get worse. I will keep my fingers crossed.

hopeful

Thanks..MArk

I am going to order- plus I am going to order their Zinc creme...as well- can't hurt and Zonc is supposed to be good for ED problems as well..

Hopeful


. Each gram has l00 mg of MS. No product helps everyone ;I don't think this is an exception. The good news is that it is very inexpensive. good luck to all.        http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/minerals/magnesium/Mag_Sulf_Cream_Spec225.html      
[/quote]

Liam

Mark,  I am trying to soak once a week in warm epsom salt water.  Couldn't hurt and it relaxes my muscles.  

Did you know it will help bougainvilleas bloom?  My plants weren't blooming so I went to a gardening forum.  That is what they suggested.  IT WORKED!    :)
"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

mark501

hopeful, Suggest that you begin only with the MS cream and add the zinc creme at a later date. At least 7-10 days later so that if you have a reaction such as a rash or burning sensation you will know which cream you are sensative to.  I don't have any information that a zinc cream would be helpful. Mark

lily

Hi Hopeful,

My son is 23 and has Peyronies Disease since about three months. He has Pudendal Neuralgia since 6 months and cannot sit. He is actually taking amitriptyline and I would like to know about any treatment which could help.
I have read that Neprinol pills are a good treatment.
Thank you in advance for your reply and advises.

Quote from: hopeful on March 15, 2006, 08:05:06 AM

Emersonchief- I don't know if you saw this post- so posting again- I do not have a medical background- just try to read- and think out of the box-I cannot believe a needle injection ( trauma) is good for Peyronies Disease..I am a firm believer with Dr. Leu- that the healing system- is run a mock- causing excess fibrin etc.. and lack of circulation- I think too, there has to be a balance...

FYI- I have been conducting research with several companies that should fall into this category as well.

I have had Peyronies Disease for abut 8 months- no more pain- have low testosterone - 300 - have 35% curve at tip  of penis- I think it is getting worse..just turned 59- plus my younger brother 57- got it about the same time as me- At this time, I am only taking oral enzymes for now - . I am working with (3) other companies doing research- one is a company that does high frequency ultra sound- which they are curing prostrate cancer- 100%- not approved in the US yet- in Canada and England- an American Medical Company- and also make the equipment that does - laproscopy- ablation- to remove brain tumors- see link http://www.misonix.com/medical/US/applications -

After speaking to them about Peyronies Disease, they feel that their ablation method may be a modality to try- and they are in the process as we speak- to get approval in London to test this on a cadaver with Peyronies Disease-  basically they are able to dissolve cancerous tumors, and suck them out-very similar to mini targeted liposuction using high frequency to dissolve the tissue matter- which in Peyronies Disease is the plaque and fibrin tissue...and feel this method can be used for Peyronies Disease patients as well- just thinking out of the box again- they say, the urologist know of their equipment-its just an educational thing- where they have to apply the technology to another part of the body-...

I am also working with another company- that has invented a needles syringe- no pain-no bruising-no bleeding - that has just finished a 2,000 patient trial on men with ED and diabetic that cannot take oral Viagra, Cealsis etc- with fantastic results- I think this could be the missing ingredient for the Auxullium trial as their modality requires injection with a needle- not good for Peyronies Disease-scarring.

BREAKING NEWS- This company just met with a Peyronies Disease doctor in Canada- (will get name) that wants to do a clinical trial using their syringe- to treat Peyronies Disease with new drugs, enzymes etc.

The main reason is for possible administration of a super strong enzyme creme as I have been working with another company that has created a super strong Enzyme creme- that has had fantastic results with DP & lymphodema - both similar to Peyronies Disease - same basic conditions in different parts of the body- I just got the creme- 2 days ago- and started applying it- I will also begin an oral enzyme protocol as well-

Clinical Trial- I want to find a doctor to work with that can monitor the treatment ( before and after) - one that is willingling to explore other modalities - w/o surgery. Hopefully, I will be able to find one in the South Florida area that would be willing to place at least 5-10 of his Peyronies Disease patients in this trial.  

INJECTION- I will be sending sample to the company with the needless syringe to see if this can be administered this way as well- I am also trying to see if it can be administered via IONTOPHORESIS too.


wantitstr8

You need to go to a competent urologist and have your son evaluated.  I think everyone here would be hesitant to provide any advice given the complicating factors of your son's condition.

Liam

Lily,

I agree with wantitstr8 about offering advice.  In general terms, though, you can look around here and see several treatments being tried.  Check the supplements page.  I have heard of and considered Neprinol.  I have not yet been convinced to try it.

Also, even supplements can have interactions with different meds.  Please check before starting any.

One other thing, a "blood supply problem" is linked by some to both erectile dysfunction and Peyronies Disease.  Amitriptyline has erectile dysfunction listed as one of it's side effect.  I only bring this up as a subject to discuss with your doc.  

Good Luck
Liam
"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

Hawk

Lily,

The one other thing I would suggest is to have your son consider logging on to the forum.  If he is suffering from the potentially devastating psychological effects of Peyronies Disease or ED at such a young age, I am sure he would find top notch support and a good basic education on options, finding a good doctor, interacting with a doctor, and evaluating treatments.  Such suffering could be obvious, or worse yet, it could be bottled up.  We have many here and all offer support.  Several of our members are no older than your son.

Best of luck
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

soxfan


Hi All,

I have been doing some internet research and came across the following. Let me know what you gents think about the following articles, thanks. ;D

Cheers.

12 amino acid sequence


Abstract
The present invention relates to an isolated target sequence. The target sequence is a splice variant of PDE5 called a PDE5a1, a component of which is presented as SEQ ID No 1. The identified target sequence of the present invention may be used to as a target to identify agents (such as modulators) useful in the prevention and/or treatment of a disease associated with scarring and/or fibrosis or to selectively identify smooth muscle cells and myofibroblasts and myoepithelial cells in samples of normal and diseased tissue from individuals.
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=11&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=intracavernosal&s2=injections&OS=intracavernosal+AND+injections


Penis enlargement


Abstract
A method for causing a permanent increase in the length and girth of a male subject's penis, the method comprising treatment comprising the step of (a) administering to the male an effective amount of a vasodilator selected from the group consisting of a vasodilator per se and compositions thereof comprising a pharmaceutically-acceptable diluent or carrier, to induce a cumulative prolonged engorgement of the subject's penis; and (b) repeating step (a) as necessary to cause the increase during the treatment. A potentiator which enhances the effect of the vasodilator may also be used.
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=20050065159&OS=20050065159&RS=20050065159





Tim468

You can apparently get a patent for anything.

I can not find any information on this person who is filing this patent. There is no way at all to independently verify these "case reports", which are IMHO probably faked. And the  patent covers virtually every single compound that one could ever conceive of injecting rubbing infusing or giving in any way shape or form. The patent seems designed to "cover all bases" so that this person can then honestly say "Patent pending!" at the bottom of the page, or better yet "Our special patented formula that is proven to work!!!".

It reeks of BS to me.
52, Peyronies Disease for 30 years, upward curve and some new lesions.

j

Junk patents have become a big problem in the software industry, where I work. And let's not forget Jerry Easterling (PDL) who obtained a patent on any and all topical usage of calcium channel blockers for Peyronie's - an idea I doubt was even his.  

The US patent office is woefully underfunded and understaffed. The patent examiners often can't begin to understand the technical details of an application.  




ComeBacKid

J,

Your exactly right, underfunded and understaffed coudln't be more right.

Quote from: j on July 06, 2006, 10:50:26 PM
Junk patents have become a big problem in the software industry, where I work. And let's not forget Jerry Easterling (PDL) who obtained a patent on any and all topical usage of calcium channel blockers for Peyronie's - an idea I doubt was even his.  

First off, Easterling shouldn't even be allowed to patent any and all topical usage of calcium channel blockers for peyronies. As Tim has pointed out this gives Easterling a monopoly, and blocks potential research on topical drugs to treat peyronies.  Secondly if Easterling can never prove his idea and product works, in time I believe his patent should be revoked, all he is doing is sitting on the patent and doing nothing with no further studies or proof.  I couldn't agree with Tim more, in fact after completing my report and anxiously awaiting the results of our survey, putting the pieces of the puzzle together I believe this patent idea was part of a bigger strategy, with Easterling knowing his product simply doesn't work and blocking out anyone to disprove his product.  I encourage members to view my report on PDLabs and topical verapamil, and if you have used topical verapamil from PDLabs, Talon Pharmacies, or used the generic version, make sure you take our survey!

Report on PDLabs and Topical Verapamil









Barry

The PDL patent is a "Non-Provisional (Utility) Patent". Under patent law, the person or persons filing a "Utility patent" need only present "ONE CLAIM"......key word is "Claim" not proof, in doing so this claim must be written in a specific language as dictated by the USPTO to be legal. What a joke this federal department is. J has hit the proverbial nail on the head when he says that the USPTO is under staffed and under funded. But their laws afford people like Easterling, under law, to get away with what he has done within his patent. If you really want to get the full idea on just how easy it was for PDL to encompass the entire calcium channel blocker family of drugs I have attached the URL to the USPTO for your reading pleasure >:(.

http://www.uspto.gov/   You will love this stuff ???

Below are the definitions of CLAIM and UTILITY PATENT as defined by the USPTO, Also an interesting read:-(


claims:      define the invention and are what aspects are legally enforceable. The specification must conclude with a claim particularly pointing out and distinctly claiming the subject matter which the applicant regards as his invention or discovery. The claim or claims must conform to the invention as set forth in the remainder of the specification and the terms and phrases used in the claims must find clear support or antecedent basis in the description so that the meaning of the terms in the claims may be ascertainable (clearly understood ) by reference to the description. (See 37 CFR § 1.58(a)).


utility patent:    may be granted to anyone who invents or discovers any new, useful, and nonobvious process, machine, article of manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof.

NOTE the words I have colored in blue.......Personally I find this very interesting, just my own thoughts.


Much to anyone's lacking in delight, Easterling is LEGAL.

Barry

hopeful

Hi Lily

I wish I had good news - but I do not as of yet- as for Neprinol- it is a very expensive enzyme formula base- I spoke to the owner of the company that created the formula for them- Enzymes - do help- I have not troed Neprinol yet- I am still trying the topical enzyme creme - and taking other oral enzymes-and am still waiting to hear about the possible study with the needless injector- I do not know the condition you mentioned or the drug.... I stil think IONTO is a possible treatment- however, I am not hearing good results about the Physion unit.... please keep me in the loop if you hear of anything else





Quote containing complete posts was deleted from this post - Hawk

j

Barry, pudder135, since we're venting our frustration with America's intellectual property laws, let's not forget injectable collagenase (AA4500). In 2000, BioSpecifics was awarded patent number 6,022,539 from the U.S. Patent Office for the use of injectable Collagenase enzyme to treat Peyronie's disease. They've since licensed it to Auxilium

Here is something that, unlike verapamil,  appears to actually work. But we'll never see it unless and until the big players at these companies figure out how to make a ton of money off of it. If they can't come up with a plan with a big enough payback, they'll sit on that patent forever.




howcanthisbe

Interesting book review I found through google: Heres the reader review of interest:

I got this book subsequent to being diagnosed with high cholesterol, and being put on statin medication, to reduce it. I was appalled when I went to pick up my first thirty Zocor tablets, and was told "That'll be $155 please." I haven't had health insurance for three years now, and couldn't afford this amount. I was abit dismayed anyway, at being put on this medication. I thought I'd be able to bring my cholesterol down by reigning in my diet, I'd been eating poorly prior to my bloodwork. I found generic medication I could afford, and took it for two months, but wasn't convinced that inhibiting an enzyme in my liver was the way to solve the problem; if anything, the medication allowed me to keep eating crappy, and not have bad blood levels! So, after trying it the conventional way, and seeing that, yes, my cholesterol levels had come down, I decided to try Dr. Rosedale's diet, and supplement plan. I found it online, while researching cholesterol. I am in my third month of the diet, and, while I say I "approximate" the diet, I pretty well stick to the supplement plan. I've had some really good experiences with this, and some fear, at the high levels of some supplements he recommends, but have had remarkable results with Vitamin K. I was diagnosed with osteopenia a year or so ago, and put on Fosamx, which I refused to take. It also was expensive, $14 per weekly pill, and its mechanism of action, as well as potential side-effects turned me off. Dr. Rosedale recommends 2000 mcg of K per day for oseteoporosis prevention, 8000 mcg per day for treatment. Since osteopenia is a milder form of bone loss that osteoporosis, I take 5000 mcg per day, of K-1, which is what you get in most vitamin bottles. The chemical name starts with a P. There's another Vitamin K, which is K-2, and whose chemical name starts with an M, which you have to be careful about, because high levels of it can harm you, but the research I did on the internet says that K-1 isn't harmful at high levels, and can be helpful with connective tissue diseases. This I have to tell you. I have suffered from Dupuytren's in my left hand for five years, and mine was atypically painful. I was also getting Leiderhose, and Peyronies. Devestating. I was scared to take 2000 mcg K per day all at once, from the 100 mcg I was taking, so I ramped up to 1000 mcg the first day, then 2000 mcg the next day, and 5000 mcg the fourth day. After the second or third day, I began to notice dramatic changes in my left hand: reduction of pain, increased comfortable range of motion. Now, three weeks out, my Peyronies is all but gone, my Leiderhose almost gone, and my left hand only mildly affected. I was starting to get it in my right hand as well, and althought I still feel aches sometimes, it's greatly reduced over what I was experiencing before I took the increased doses of K. The stuff is cheap, too. I get 100, 100 mcg pills for $1.96. For a supposedly incurable disease! But I tried ordering Dr. Rosedale's supplements online, at his website, and although it took my order, it didn't ship, and my bankcard was never debited. Also, I wrote to Dr. Rosedale to tell him about the connective tissue disease improvements, with the Vitamin K, and to thank him for writing his book, and my mail came back, "Moved, no new address". I didn't know what to make of this, but the changes have been marvelous. I'm learning what it's like to relax. I was in a hyper state for so long, I guess with all the carbohydrates I used to eat, that the unhyper state seemed strange to me at first. I can look, plan, act. Before, and still sometimes, I act compulsivley, always running, like a hamster on a wheel, but this diet slows me down, allows me to be more in the moment, emotionally, which is not always positive, but at least it's real, and I'm learning to tolerate emotions I previously would have run away from. I used food as a place to hide, and, letting that go, I deal with reality more directly now. I just stop, get ahold of myself, wait, and the overwhelming feeling passes. I experience moments of stopping keeping myself in a perpetual motion cycle, and see outside of the corner I'd painted myself into.

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Heres the actual link:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060565721/103-6847158-7218257?v=glance&n=283155

Also im sure this is fake, but I found this site:
http://peyronies-disease-help.com/testimonials.html

Anyways I always love reading good news about peyronies, it gives me a little hope,lol.





Tim468

Fascinating account. Like all anecdotal accounts, it may have nothing to do with what it appears to be about - but it is enough to make me look closer! I will do some research on this...

Tim
52, Peyronies Disease for 30 years, upward curve and some new lesions.

Tim468

Here is another post on Amazon.com by this guy:

"The description says the product contains phylloquinone, which, I believe, is the naturally occuring version of Vitamin K, as opposed to what you usually get in Vitamin K supplements, which is, I belive, the synthetic version of Vitamin K, phytonadione. I have used both, for osteoporosis prevention, actually, osteopenia treatment, and foind remarkable chages to my Dupuytren's in my left hand, within days of using 5mg per day. Trouble was, counting out 25, and 25 100 mcg tablets per day of the standard 100 mcg dosage. Found 500 mcg tablets, but, within days, felt positive effect on my Dupuytren's disappear. Looked on the bottle, and saw phylloquinone, instead of phytonadione. Switched back to the phytonadione, and the problem reversed in a couple of days. Found this product, through the munufacturer, full retail price, plus shipping, and, within hours, had run out of phytonadione, and was using up the supply of phylloquinone I'd bought, the discomfort in my hand was easing. Also have Ledderhose in my feet, and it helps similarly with that. But this product has phytonadione, not the phylloquinone that the description advertises. Also, best price I've seen, no shipping charges, even on one bottle. I'm going to contact the company to tell them about the mistake, but this stuff is amazing. Cheaper than Fosamax, better mechanism of action, for bone loss, and helps arteries, and connective tissue difficulties as well."
52, Peyronies Disease for 30 years, upward curve and some new lesions.

howcanthisbe

Tim do you think this guy is just a scam promotor maybe for a company claiming to cure peyronies that links back to a site? Anyways im off to work, see you guys later

Liam

I have never heard of symptoms of Peyronies Disease or Dups coming and going that quickly.  Vitamin K(and phylloquinone) occur in green leafy vegetables you eat.  It, put simply, helps your blood clot.  This flies in the face of the studies with pentox and sildenafil.

I think the author may have been partaking of the green leafy herb you smoke ;).

QuoteI was in a hyper state for so long, I guess with all the carbohydrates I used to eat, that the unhyper state seemed strange to me at first. I can look, plan, act. Before, and still sometimes, I act compulsivley, always running, like a hamster on a wheel, but this diet slows me down, allows me to be more in the moment, emotionally, which is not always positive, but at least it's real, and I'm learning to tolerate emotions I previously would have run away from. I used food as a place to hide, and, letting that go, I deal with reality more directly now. I just stop, get ahold of myself, wait, and the overwhelming feeling passes. I experience moments of stopping keeping myself in a perpetual motion cycle, and see outside of the corner I'd painted myself into.
"I don't ask why patients lie, I just assume they all do."
House

Hawk

Liam, I am glad you pointed that out.  It caught me when I read it and I thought this guy may just be a bit disconnected from reality.  It would certainly make a jury wonder about his reliability as a witness.  I am glad you had the judgement to shine a light on that part of his review.

PS: Nothing even comes close to approaching kale for vitamin K content.  I had an unusual very bloody prostate biopsy.  As a result, I knocked out all vitamin E and I ate kale for 3 days prior to my next 2 biopsies.  Probably unnecessary, but after my experience I was taking no chances.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

mark501

This is from "The world's healthiest Foods". "1,000 milligrams or more of vitamin E can interfere with the bodily activities of vitamin K.  This potential injury of vitamin K metabolism was largely the reason why the National Academy of Sciences, in the year 2000, set a Tolerable Upper Limit of 1,000 milligrams per day for vitamin E." This is a 7 page article about vitamin K.     www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?pfriendly=1&tname=nutrient&dbid=112

j

I agree that Mr. K. sounds confused. Dupuytren's is never painful, to my knowledge. If he's complaining about chronic pain in his hands, he's not talking about Dupuytren's. And anything that could dissolve advanced contractures in a few days would probably also be a good furniture stripper.  ;)