Alternative Treatments for Peyronie's Disease

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Joshua

This topic is for Peyronies Disease discussions on alternative treatments that do not fit in other categories.

nick

I have a treatment idea and don't know the best place to post it. I thought maybe a new post but I can't do that :-) So I have believed for quite some time that there is serious vallidity to the idea of enzyme therapy. Taken internally it make perfect sense. So I was thinking what about a topical preperation. I know that DMSO adn emu oil are both none to be great carrier agents. They are supposed to be two of the very few that will carry through all seven tissue layers. Maybe there is somthing better, I don't know. Could I take a mortar and pestal and just gring anzymes to a fine powder and mix with one of these two ? The problem I see is thant powder won't mix well with oil and I read someplace that if you premix something with DMSO it will go bad. I'm sure that a blend of proteolytic and systemic enymes with co-enzymes (they need eachother to work) in a topical preperation would be helpful. I don't think it's a cure but it could help. I just don't know squat about compounding pharmacueticals or things of the like.

Joshua

This sound like dmso based topics. There is also some material there you may find interesting to go with your ideas. RZZ and Barry F have done some good research on dmso.  They might be able to help.

nick

The DMSO portion of my idea is only one of the ideas, that's why I put in here. I haven't really seen what I'm looking for man I wish I didn't drop out of chemestry

Larry H

Flexor,

I am in general agreement with what you say. In fact I have a copy of the "Leriche Technique" obtained through the NIH. Unfortunately it's in french so it's been of little use to me.

Yes, there is a lot of this type of research data out there, and it becomes frustrating trying to follow each hopeful path. You can go in so many directions that you become so splintered you end up getting nothing done.

At the PDC we are trying to orginize our efforts into a step by step approach. As a first step it was determined to address the issue of Peyronies Disease being an orphan disease, and this is not a cut and dried matter of good or bad. Being a rare disease limits research, but if it has orphan status funding is available through the "Rare Disease Act of 2002" and an earlier act in 1986. The question becomes one of numbers, so if you prove that Peyronies Disease occurs in say 400,000 men the drug companys will perhaps see this as too small a number for a reasonable return for research. In that case it may be better to have Peyronies Disease retain it's orphan status. If we are talking 4,000,000 men than you have a different picture. There are other questions. Cystic fibrosis is a high profile disease, and it's an orphan disease affecting around 30,000 people, but because it's high profile will it and other high profile diseases push Peyronies Disease aside.

It's complicated, but we are talking to people to make sure we know the issue well before lobbying for any particular position.

Larry H

Glenn


Larry,

I don't know how long the report is but you can translate from French to English on a free website.
http://babelfish.altavista.com/    This will translate from one language to another and you just have to copy and paste the text.  The drawback is you can only copy and paste about 150 words at a time.  If it is a long report it would probably be too tedious to pursue.

FYI
Glenn


Quote from: Larry H on September 16, 2005, 05:47:32 PM
Flexor,

In fact I have a copy of the "Leriche Technique" obtained through the NIH. Unfortunately it's in french so it's been of little use to me.


Larry H

Larry H

Glenn,

Thanks, that's a very good idea and I'll give it a try.

Thanks Much,

Larry

secondfourth

31 from asia.

RECENTLY, i have started to do something about it after gathering
information from the net:

1. i start to take cochicine, and vitamin E.

2. i self made some topical ointment:
actually PLB's verapmil formula is not a sercret, though it is
patent, the content is list in the patent. it is PLO based.

Since i have no channel to buy those ingredient i know from the
patent, say (Fluronic gel 20, etc). i self made the ointment as
below.

a. verapmil pill - ground them into powder
b. dissolve in volka ( with ethanol and water as solvent)
c. lecithin, cod liver oil, flaxseed oil, vit E (lecithin as
penetration enhancer and emulsifier, cod liver oil and flaxseed oil
for their poly un saturated fatty acids, like LA, ALA, OA which are
also penetration enhancer). No DMSO, as i couldn't source them.
d. some vinegar to reduce pH, verapmil has high solubility in ow pH
e. a few drop of lemon and methol essential oil ( limonene and
mehtol as penetrative enhancer too)

I apply the ointment (watery, but dry quickly, probably due to
ethanol evaporation) twice daily. have to shake before use cause the
oil and water base don't mix well.

Not sure of the result. but just try for a week.... hope there is
miracle...

Anyone can give me advice on


-comments on ointment formular?

MAny thanks

lostlove

This something I found on the net by a doctor william wong phd sports medicine:
To break up fibrosis( binding scar tissue)
PC Ligament Stretch - Work yourself up into a semi erect (Tumescent) state. Create a ring around the penis with your thumb and middle finger. Starting at the pelvis side of the shaft, slightly tighten the finger ring and draw it out towards the head (glans penis). This will pull the blood towards the head and make it extremely hard and full. Hold this position for 5 to 10 seconds and while holding the ring just before the head pull slowly and gently away from you as if you're lengthening the shaft. Do 20 reps, each rep with a 5 to 10 second hold for 5 sets. (Don't make the ring too tight, and don't yank or tug)! This exercise will not only stretch the PC ligament over time but it also help to break up fibrosis (binding scar type tissue) inside the spongy cavity that prevents it's full engorgement and expansion with blood.

maybe its worth a try.. let me know if it works for anyone?

phil

Rzz posted something back in August about Needle Atrophy.  He mentioned two doctors in Florida that are performing this procedure.  Does anyone have info on this?

Thanks,

flexor

The technique is Needle Aponeurotomy. It is used  for the fibrous build-up on the palm of the hand in Dupuytren's Contracture. The surgeon uses a needle to go just under the skin to tear at the plaque and break it up, so that the palm can straighten.

A similar technique (Leriche technique) has been reported from France, with high success rates. An erection is artificially induced, and the neddle inserted just under the skin to tear the plaque so that the penis can straighten. 'Sucess is' defined as whether the patient thinks it a success, or the ability to resume sexual intercourse. Of  ten men in the experiment, after three months, three reported 'cured' and two reported satisfied. The remaining five returned for a further session, after which three of them were satisfied, and two were so advanced that they went on to surgery, and the treatment did not impede the surgery.

An interesting side issue, which may cheer up Old Man, is that they attribute the high success rate to the requirement that the patient returns rapidly to sexual intercourse after the treatment, or failing this, the use of a VED - the point presumably being to produce erections that stop the torn plaque from knitting back.

I've not found anyone outside France doing this, though it makes sense. Are there doctors in Florida doing this?

Larry H

I secured a copy of the Leriche paper which was in French. Flexor sent me a private note and offered to have the paper translated. I sent it to him and he returned the translation, and I want to thank him for his time and effort.

Barry and I did a little background checking as to why this treatment has not been discussed in more detail, and why we have heard nothing about. We really don't have answers to those questions as yet. I'm sending the paper on to Hawk for whatever action he wishes. Flexor did sum it up nicely.

Larry H

j

Need Aponevrotomy (NA) has been performed on Dupuytren's Contractures for decades in Europe with good results. It hasn't been seen in the U.S. until recently; conventional hand surgeons dismissed it.  It's now being done by about half a dozen U.S. MDs and patients are lining up around the block based on word-of-mouth advertising alone. I have DC myself and have had 2 conventional surgeries. Next time I need a correction, I'll be having NA instead.

It doesn't work in all cases; success depends on how the contracture is attached to the surrounding tissue. In most the cases, results are excellent. In all cases, no harm is done.  I've wondered for a long time if something similar could be done for Peyronie's and maybe the answer is yes.

For DC, the NA technique doesn't sever the bands, just weakens them until they can be snapped by forcibly straightening the fingers. So for Peyronie's the key is to induce an erection that stretches the fibrotic tissue tightly, then a special needle is used to weaken it until, hopefully, it tears.

As with DC, those of us in the U.S. might be encountering strong initial resistance from surgeons who refuse to believe that anything so simple, non-invasive and - yes - inexpensive, can actually work.  But with DC, the battle is being won by NA.

I wasn't aware that anyone was trying this for Peyronie's. Based on the history of NA for DC, this may be very good news.  We may end up having to go to France for it, however.



phil

Regarding earlier discussion on iontophoresis, it has been using verapimil.  Has anyone used a steriod cream with iontophoresis? If so, any success?  

learn4life

Hi !

Thank you very much for your helpful response.

Here are the following Peyronies Disease treatment I will be trying:

Peyronies Disease Plan


Neprinol 3x3 pills daily for 4 weeks but start at 2-3 pills a day for 1-2weeks

Vitamin E Gamma+ Intergral E Daily
Vitamin C Natural Daily (2000mg-4000mg daily)
Castol E Oil to be massaged on scars daily

MSM 2000-4000mg daily for several months then reduce to 1-2grams daily
DMSO 4oz Daily massage twice with Castor E oil


What do you think? Have you tried any of them? What has your experience been like?

Also I take many herbs from a Dr.Lin and use his vip heat massage which I do
daily twice. Also I take Dr.Lins natural Prostaglandin E1 Therapy. This helps
to soften the scars but so far hasnt eliminated it.

Yes ! I will try the infrared formula as I have tried something similar recommended
by Dr.Lin which has really helped with Peyronies Disease.

Cheers !


Hawk

I will only comment that Vitamin C and MSM both have warning from different sources that they could worsen Peyronies Disease.  Vitamin C is a huge component in stepping up collagen production.  It is also documented in studies to worsen inflamation and formation of osteo-arthritis.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

learn4life

Quote from: Hawk on November 17, 2005, 10:53:28 PM
I will only comment that Vitamin C and MSM both have warning from different sources that they could worsen Peyronies Disease.  Vitamin C is a huge component in stepping up collagen production.  It is also documented in studies to worsen inflamation and formation of osteo-arthritis.

Hi Hawk!

Thanks for the very warm welcome :)

mmm so does anyone have any positive experiences with MSM or vitamin C?
Also anyone taking Neprinol here?

Im wondering if everyone could put one treatment as the best one, which would it be?

If  any of you could point out which supplement, herb, method has worked best for you to
ease down Peyronies Disease please let us know.

Cheers!




Joshua

Quote from: learn4life on November 18, 2005, 11:11:13 PM
Quote from: Hawk on November 17, 2005, 10:53:28 PM

Im wondering if everyone could put one treatment as the best one, which would it be?

If  any of you could point out which supplement, herb, method has worked best for you to ease down Peyronies Disease please let us know.

If I HAD to give one, I would say L-Carnitine but I consider L-Arginine just as helpful if not better.  

Hawk

Quote from: learn4life on November 18, 2005, 11:11:13 PM
Im wondering if everyone could put one treatment as the best one, which would it be?

If  any of you could point out which supplement, herb, method has worked best for you to
ease down Peyronies Disease please let us know.

I'm never brief.  My recommendation would depend on whether you have Peyronies Disease with strong erections or Peyronies Disease with some degree of ED  I have 3

Acetyl L Carnitine 2000 - 3000mg daily
VED (Vacuum Erection Device)
HEAT (In the form of hot water localized to just the penis)

I would place less emphasis on the VED for someone that gets full scale rigid erections

Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

learn4life

Hi !

Thank you Hawk and Joshua for your very helpful responses.

I wonder if anyone here has overcame Peyronies Disease fully?

Actually my Peyronies Disease is quite severe as from the base to the glans neck there are very
deep and hard plague modules all over the entire penis. The entire right side goes numb if I dont take
my herbs, supplements and do daily vip heat cream massages.

I do take L-Arginine as suggested by Dr.Lin but I take 4000mg. I read you had advise
it is best to take 5000mg? Why is this if true?

Also I take Fish oil, Borage Oil, Choline, Same, Neprinol, L-Tyrosine, 5htp+Gaba,
Many different types of Herbs plus herbal teas.

I do a twice a day massage on the penile tissues with Vip Cream and also
Evening Primose Oil/ Borage oil to boost the Prostaglandin E1 in the penile tissues.
This helps to soften the scars. It works as whenever I decide to stop for a few days
the scars get much harder and restricts penile size.

L-Carnitine: How does this help Peyronies Disease?

Also what is VED?

I feel the heat method helps with Peyronies Disease alot whether it is water or or even a warm towel.
Im going to give the infrared light as suggested by Joshua. Iam going to add a vip cream
massage while under the infrared light to let the cream penetrate deeper to
soften the scars. What do you guys think of this?

If anyone is interested I got Peyronies Disease from overmasturbating since 11 twice daily for years while
jelking with as much force generated by my hand tightly squeezed for many months.
Hanging weights on base. Also tying several elastic bands on the base for 1-2 hours.

I suffer from precum ozzing as well, although not as bad as before. Anyone  else have this?


Thansk guys for the awesome support as it is great to be able to speak about Peyronies Disease
with people  :)

Cheers


learn4life

Hi folks !

4:30am here in the Uk.

I got a good question.

How long would you try a cure/solution for?

I have just started to take Neprinol and I will test it for 1 and half months as it doesnt
come cheap. 170usd inc shipping for 1months supply.

I think 1-2 months is good time to test a cure. What do you guys think?


flexor

Just a comment on Dupuytren's.

Several years ago, a ridge of fibrin/plaque appeared on my right hand across the palm in line with my ring finger. I showed it to my doctor, whos said it was a bursa - an escape of fluid fom the tendon.  The plaque got worse, and then the same thing happened on my left hand. However, there was no pain, I had no curvature of the finger, but I could not bend my ring fingers back. So it was just unsightly, and did not bother me.

Then I developed Peyronies Disease. When I saw the uro, I showed him my hands, and he confirmed that this was DC.

As part of my attempt to sort out the Peyronies Disease, I started taking Vitalzym. This involves a highish level (5  pills three times a day, I think) for five weeks, and then dropping down to an activation level.

After four weeks, I suddenly noticed that the plaque on my hands had virtually disappeared. Since I wasn't expecting it, I wasn't looking for it, so I don't know if it happened over a few days or a few weeks.

The present position with DC is that the plaque is slightly there, but not really noticeable. The tendons leading to the ring finger are taut. I still can't bend my finger back, but definitely an improvement.

Also, some years ago, my optician diagnosed high eye pressure - potentially dangerous as it can lead to glaucoma. After lots of hospital tests they decided that I was at the high end of 'normal', but to have an annual test just to make sure it didn't rise any further. So I have done that for several years, and there has been no change in the pressure. About three months after starting the Vitalzym, I had my annual test, and the optician was a bit taken aback to find that the eye pressure had fallen. I put this down to the Vitalzym.

I am still taking the enzymes because on the whole I feel better with them than without, but I am sorry to say that after that promising start, and almost a year of taking it, it has had no effect on the Peyronies Disease.

Hawk

Quote from: learn4life on November 19, 2005, 11:30:47 PM
How long would you try a cure/solution for?

I have just started to take Neprinol and I will test it for 1 and half months as it doesnt
come cheap. 170usd inc shipping for 1months supply.

I think 1-2 months is good time to test a cure. What do you guys think?

First, great to have a new posting member and another member from European side of the pond.  I think no one has answered because it is anyone's guess.  In addition to that, it probably depends on the treatment.  I try several things at once.  I is confusing as far as research is concerned because if you get results you don't know which one helped, if the combination helped, or the old standby, that it was spontaneous improvement.

I guess generally, I would try something a minimum of 2 months and I think the first indicator may be a reduction in pain if you have some measurable pain.  If stopping the the trial treatment and restarting in seems connected with pain it is a pretty good piece of evidence that it is helping, but still not proof.

One last point, sadly, I think it is very safe to say that we test possible treatments not cures.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

learn4life

Thanks Hawk !

Its always good to hear from ya :)

Cheers !

phil

All:

Has anyone used iontophoresis with a steroidal cream? If so, any results? I will have to go to a physical therapy facility to receive ion.  It's kind of awkward getting that kind of therapy on your penis.

nick

Hawk : I have not heard of MSM being bad for Peyronies Disease. Do you recall the sorce ?

learn4life : For me The time frame I go by is 90 days.  My thought is that if something is going to help you should see something in 90 days. Even a small change. Also I have been using Neprinol with MSM for some time now and it has been working well. However I have also been using the thacker's formula. So I am in the process now of trying to zero in on which one has had the most benefit because the Neprinol is really expensive .  

Hawk

Nick,

First, Welcome back from the land of the missing.  :)

I have run across the MSM, Vitamin C, Glucosamine warning a few times from doctors (on the internet).  I have no solid evidence they are harmful and I think it may be theory due to collagen boosting properties they share with L- Lysine.

Interestingly enough, the topic "A New Theory" by a non-medical person, is very interesting.  He also mentions MSM and/or Glucosamine.

Since I never saw evidence or even theory that it helps Peyronies Disease, I avoid it just to be cautious.

Footnote.  My Peyronies Disease is changing very slowly.  My downward curve is gone but I now have a slight right curve on full VED erection.  That complicates knowing whether something works, or if you are we are just experiencing progressive changes common to Peyronies Disease
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

nick

Thank Hawk. Life has been crazy . I Have had 3 viruses causing unspeakable hell in my life. A flu virus, a computer virus and an ex wife. I have read about the Vit. c and the glucosamine so I avoid them. I need to read up more on the MSM. everthing I have read talks about wound healing, pain reduction and reduction of inflamation.  Here's a link with a nice write up.

www.mynaturalstore.com/msm-supplement.htm


number1

I've been doing the IR heat lamp treatment since Christmas with no noticable results (not even a good tan). I notice no other posts. Did we decide that was a dead end or just too soon to tell?

phil

Number1

I've been using the IR for several months and I think it helps.  Along with E,ALC, anti-inflamatory med.  Keep on using it for several more months. good luck.

roadblock

what type of improvement did you experience? less pain? decreased curve?

phil

Roadblock,

I think I have less pain and less of a curve.  Don't know for sure if it is the infrared, but I think so.

emersonchief

Pete

Thanks for the post.  It is encourageing to know that someone is actually try to find a cure of Peyronies Disease.

j

Pete, a very interesting post. I have a comment.

I understand Dr. Lue's point about a breakup of the "plaque" not being a complete solution. However, my first thought is that anything that weakens the interlocked collagen matrix would make that tissue more amenable to stretching. For example, it might make stretching with a VED much more effective than before.  If the result was that you permanently streched the left side such that you actually then had a bend to the right with no erection, but with an erection you were fairly straight, I'd call that success.

The situation is similar with Dupuytren's contracture. A treatment called "needle aponevrotomy" is now being widely used with good results. The contracture is painlessly perforated with a fine needle until it's weakened to the point where it is simply snapped by forcibly straightening the finger. The affected tissue isn't 'cured' in any sense, it remains fibrotic and doesn't look very pretty but ceases to be a functional problem.  

Encouraging and I think Dr. Lue is definitely on the right track. I'd like to see a simple 'mechanical' solution to this problem, otherwise we wait 20 years for breakthroughs in tissue regeneration.




hopeful


Emersonchief- I don't know if you saw this post- so posting again- I do not have a medical background- just try to read- and think out of the box-I cannot believe a needle injection ( trauma) is good for Peyronies Disease..I am a firm believer with Dr. Leu- that the healing system- is run a mock- causing excess fibrin etc.. and lack of circulation- I think too, there has to be a balance...

FYI- I have been conducting research with several companies that should fall into this category as well.

I have had Peyronies Disease for abut 8 months- no more pain- have low testosterone - 300 - have 35% curve at tip  of penis- I think it is getting worse..just turned 59- plus my younger brother 57- got it about the same time as me- At this time, I am only taking oral enzymes for now - . I am working with (3) other companies doing research- one is a company that does high frequency ultra sound- which they are curing prostrate cancer- 100%- not approved in the US yet- in Canada and England- an American Medical Company- and also make the equipment that does - laproscopy- ablation- to remove brain tumors- see link http://www.misonix.com/medical/US/applications -

After speaking to them about Peyronies Disease, they feel that their ablation method may be a modality to try- and they are in the process as we speak- to get approval in London to test this on a cadaver with Peyronies Disease-  basically they are able to dissolve cancerous tumors, and suck them out-very similar to mini targeted liposuction using high frequency to dissolve the tissue matter- which in Peyronies Disease is the plaque and fibrin tissue...and feel this method can be used for Peyronies Disease patients as well- just thinking out of the box again- they say, the urologist know of their equipment-its just an educational thing- where they have to apply the technology to another part of the body-...

I am also working with another company- that has invented a needles syringe- no pain-no bruising-no bleeding - that has just finished a 2,000 patient trial on men with ED and diabetic that cannot take oral Viagra, Cealsis etc- with fantastic results- I think this could be the missing ingredient for the Auxullium trial as their modality requires injection with a needle- not good for Peyronies Disease-scarring.

BREAKING NEWS- This company just met with a Peyronies Disease doctor in Canada- (will get name) that wants to do a clinical trial using their syringe- to treat Peyronies Disease with new drugs, enzymes etc.

The main reason is for possible administration of a super strong enzyme creme as I have been working with another company that has created a super strong Enzyme creme- that has had fantastic results with DP & lymphodema - both similar to Peyronies Disease - same basic conditions in different parts of the body- I just got the creme- 2 days ago- and started applying it- I will also begin an oral enzyme protocol as well-

Clinical Trial- I want to find a doctor to work with that can monitor the treatment ( before and after) - one that is willingling to explore other modalities - w/o surgery. Hopefully, I will be able to find one in the South Florida area that would be willing to place at least 5-10 of his Peyronies Disease patients in this trial.  

INJECTION- I will be sending sample to the company with the needless syringe to see if this can be administered this way as well- I am also trying to see if it can be administered via IONTOPHORESIS too.

soxfan


Hopeful,

I appreciate your efforts. I live in Canada and would be interested to know the name of the doctor who is looking to do the clinical trial. Thanks

kevin

Pete wrote of Dr. Lue's experiment:
"...the laser completely dissolved the plaque to the point where it was totally undetectable. However, it did not fix the problem since the elasticsity did not return to the tunica albuginia even though the hard plaque was gone. So he dropped this approach...."

I assume the Doctor still believes that the presence of plaque in the first stages of Peyronies Disease causes the deformity and the runaway depopsition of more plaque.  Then why isn't it worthwhile to eliminate plaque with laser after all, as long as it's done as early as possible - before a cascading builup makes the tunica permanently inelastic?  Unless the Doctor suspects that the laser did damage of its own to the tunica, and reduced elasticity in its own way, I don't see why the approach was dropped.

hopeful

[Good response-

I am waiting to hear back from Misonix www.misonix.com - as they have a device-thattotally ablates tumors, cures prostate cancer etc- a US company- they are getting approval to try system -on a cadaver in London- this system is currently being used to dissolve brain tumors etc-

Maybe there is a side effectto laser- I know the key is curculation- fresh blood- and wonder if a VED would help or do harm?????

Still searching- wil alsao let everyone know of the doc in Cananda that is gettingready to do research with injections with the needless syringe that I have discivered.

Hopeful,

"...the laser completely dissolved the plaque to the point where it was totally undetectable. However, it did not fix the problem since the elasticsity did not return to the tunica albuginia even though the hard plaque was gone. So he dropped this approach...."

I assume the Doctor still believes that the presence of plaque in the first stages of Peyronies Disease causes the deformity and the runaway depopsition of more plaque.  Then why isn't it worthwhile to eliminate plaque with laser after all, as long as it's done as early as possible - before a cascading builup makes the tunica permanently inelastic?  Unless the Doctor suspects that the laser did damage of its own to the tunica, and reduced elasticity in its own way, I don't see why the approach was dropped.
[/quote]

Chuck Frasher

I am taking Pentox, Cialis (it lasts longer), arginine, and acetyl-l-carnitine. I don't think that viagra's use or proposed mechanism of action in the peyronie's study had anything to do with it's ability to increase erections. But it is a PDE inhibitor. I am taking this because of the study and because I heard Dr. Lue was using it with some success. But I have no idea what the results are, if any yet, of this study are. I guess it has just recently begun.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16470210&query_hl=7&itool=pubmed_docsum

But anyway, if it even halts the progression of it, it is worth taking.  Chuck

roadblock

For those of you with Uro's interested in treating Peyronies Disease, is there anything in the works regarding Beta-aminoproprionitrile fumarate? It is used in horses to prevent cross-linking of fibrin and scar formation in horse's with tendon injuries. Apparently it is injected and has demonstrated great results. It is quite a stretch to imagine it would be efficacious in patients with Peyronies Disease...or is it?

Might be worth a mention to the Uro's out there...someone might pass the idea along which might initiate some lab research on the modality. Who knows but worth keeping an eye on. Maybe someone could turn up some research already in progress, too. Just thought I'd throw it out there!

Also, how many of you are taking Viagra in low daily doses to treat Peyronies Disease? There is some preliminary results in lab rats showing that it does some good things. Since we all are essentially lab rats, maybe it could work for us as well?? ;) If you are doing this, what dose are you taking daily? What have uro's using this approach seen in terms of results?  

roadblock

Old man,

  Certainly, part of the perceived effect is from chronic enhancement of NO in penile vasculature. But, check this out as well:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16469038&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

Rzz

There is one thing that has always confused me about using Viagra as a treatment regime. In the information sheet that comes with Viagra and all the new erection pills for that matter, it clearly states the medication should not be used by those with Peyronies Disease. Yet I know many, many urologist prescribe it as a treatment plan for thier Peyronies Disease patients. Strange, but true.

 Rzz

Hawk

RZZ,

Buddy, It is great to have you back on the forum.

Your post surprised me.  As one than does a fair bit of research, I thought I had read all of the enclosed literature with Viagra and yet your post is news to me.  

My very well known ED/Peyronies Disease doctor had me on 25 mg Viagra nightly after a radical prostatectomy and a 100 mg Viagra once or twice a month.  I was told to take no Viagra during the 2 or 3 times each week that I was supposed to inject bimix into my penis (for ED from the nerve sparing surgery).  He wanted me to continue both the injections and the Viagra after I got Peyronies Disease.  Pharmaceutical literature and studies are full of information linking the components of bimix with penile plaque.  This link is in addition to any danger from the actual needle.

The other interesting thing is that I seem to recall a study that links Viagra to causing Peyronies Disease type plaque in the tunica of rats.  So here we are, with evidence that Viagra both causes and treats Peyronies Disease.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Rzz

I mis-stated. When I said the Viagra information sheet says Viagra should not be taken by those with Peyronies Disease, I should have said the information sheet says that Viagra should be taken with extreme caution by those with Peyronies Disease. My apologies,      Rzz

Chuck Frasher

Viagra and pentoxifylline are both PDE inhibitors, although they both do increase blood flow as well. But I would like to mention, and this was mentioned above, that the mechanism of action for Viagra is probably NO.

In hairloss studies, many vasodiators were studied. The only ones that had any effect on hairloss were the ones that mimicked NO---like minoxidil. Increasing blood flow in and of its own didn't do anything at all. So NO is thought to be like a chemical messenger that initiates hair growth. It may be that NO initiates some kind of reaction that is beneficial for Peyronies Disease.

As for the caution given for Viagra and Peyronies, they are covering their asses. It reminds me of Upjohn saying that Rogaine is only effective on that back portion of the head. The FDA made them say that because that is the only place that it was tested initially. But it works elsewhere too. Maybe not as well but it does work on other parts of the scalp. They just can't say it. It's all regulatory stuff.

flexor


Chuck


roadblock

Gents,

  Pentoxifylline also is active in reducing TGF-beta which has been implemented in the development of the fibrous plaques in Peyronies Disease. It seems to me that this is a reasonable treatment with a relatively small potential for serious side effects. Also, Dr. Lue is a well-respected physician in his field with an impressive CV. I know that I'm going to pursue the initiation of this medical therapy, and if any member has any experience with it please post!

roadblock

Chuck

Quote from: roadblock on March 30, 2006, 10:54:15 PM
Gents,

  Pentoxifylline also is active in reducing TGF-beta which has been implemented in the development of the fibrous plaques in Peyronies Disease. It seems to me that this is a reasonable treatment with a relatively small potential for serious side effects. Also, Dr. Lue is a well-respected physician in his field with an impressive CV. I know that I'm going to pursue the initiation of this medical therapy, and if any member has any experience with it please post!

roadblock

Yes, it looks like pentox is the only viable treatment for Peyronie's Disease.