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Author Topic: Cialis for healing not ED  (Read 7921 times)

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phatcat

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Cialis for healing not ED
« on: March 25, 2013, 02:08:11 AM »

I wanted to see what people's thoughts are on Cialis for healing only.  I have no problem getting erections and i'm in the acute phase of the disease.

 I'm going in to see a good doctor who specializes in Peyronies Disease Tuesday and i want to be prepared.  He was involved in the xiaflex studies and I'm going to make sure to press him for pentox although i'm hoping i wont have to. I'm wondering though if i should also press him to prescribe me cialis.  I've read on here that can help healing Peyronies Disease. 

How important is it that i get on cialis in your opinion?  Also is it likely for a good Peyronies Disease doctor to prescribe it to a young guy (23) with no ED?

I've seen bits and pieces of this scattered around but not an in depth conversation on it. If i missed a thread like this I apologize.
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ashtown

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2013, 04:49:54 AM »

I can't find it now but I remember once reading a study which showed that Cialis had some reasonable success helping with scar reduction over a period of 6 months and frankly you need all the help you can get with Peyronies. I wouldn't hesitate to push for Cialis.
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Hawk

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2013, 08:52:39 AM »

The other side of the coin is that MattFoley just reported that Dr. Lue is one that does not prescribe PDE5 inhibitors (Cialis etc) for routine treatment but only for ED associated with Peyronies Disease.  My understanding is that Dr. Levine does prescribe it however so there is some disagreement on this from the bottom clear up to the top of the best 2 Peyronies Disease doctors in North America.
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funnyfarm

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2013, 04:15:42 PM »

from the article " resolution of septal scar were recorded in 24 patients (69%) compared to three patients (10%) in the control group."

Sounds too good to be true.  I wonder who funded this study ?
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George999

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2013, 04:23:55 PM »

from the article " resolution of septal scar were recorded in 24 patients (69%) compared to three patients (10%) in the control group."

Sounds too good to be true.  I wonder who funded this study ?

Of course that is ALWAYS a question with studies on these very expensive prescription drugs.  It is amazing how the results can be manipulated and cherry picked to come up with the desired outcome.  Not saying that is the case with this one, but it certainly happens regularly.
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Hawk

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2013, 05:31:41 PM »

In addition to funding the question is always whether the participants were randomized.  These are important not only for high cost prescriptions because egos and prejudice enters all studies that are not properly structured.

It is also important that we need to understand that in the world of medical studies a thousand participants is considered a very small study.  when you deal with a hundred men, a few other factors creeping in like a few being misdiagnosed or lifestyles and unreported supplements they used at home can skew the outcome significantly.  In a study of 30 or for men it obviously is even more of a problem.

Lets say I have a treatment that does nothing and I test 10 men.  and in the one group of 5 I got one guy with spontaneous remission, misdiagnosis, or other factor I could not document.  That means the one group appears to have done 20% better than the other group from what occurred and was documented with just one man.
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ashtown

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2013, 05:47:57 PM »

Not being any kind of expert on these matters I wonder if some published results are just flat out lies made up to serve the purposes of whoever is providing the funding. I saw a program on TV a few years ago where a scientist said that if he wanted to do a study on the decline of squirrel numbers he'd struggle to find funding but if he said the study was aimed at showing the impact of climate change on squirrel numbers he'd have organisations beating down his door. To keep obtaining funding he just had to give the "right" answers.
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George999

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2013, 07:04:22 PM »

Unfortunately, we live in a world where people lie for all sorts of reasons.  Like Hawk suggested, some lie just for the sake of their ego and prestige.  We've seen several very high profile cases of that lately.  Scientific breakthroughs bring a lot of power, money and prestige to the researcher.  There is plenty of motivation for dishonest people to try to cheat.  They usually do eventually get caught though.  - George
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skunkworks

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2013, 07:36:53 PM »

You work with what you've got. Expecting large scale studies on off-label drugs for Peyronie's (or in this case isolated septal scarring) is like expecting large scale randomised controlled trials for nutrition. It just is not going to happen.

PDE5 inhibitors are anti-inflammatory and anti-fibrotic, so is it that hard to believe that they could have a positive effect on penile scar tissue?

George999

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2013, 07:54:14 PM »

I think another factor is that when you have a lot of small imperfect studies done by different researchers that NEARLY ALL point in the same direction ... well ... I pay more attention to those than to a couple of very detailed and by the book studies that use slight of hand to reach their conclusions.  Like the ones claiming that calcium supplements cause health problems based on calcium supplementation without inclusion of OBVIOUS co-factors that people in the know always include.  There are tons of junk studies like that being pumped out by mainstream researchers.  I have seen a number of them that once you read the actual full study, you can't believe that medically trained people could possibly be that obtuse.  Technically they are correct, but they are also very deceptive.  Most of them, in my humble opinion, are done with an agenda, which is to keep the medical establishment fat and happy.
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phatcat

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2013, 11:52:11 PM »

i think you guys are right it's hard to sift through the bs.   I re-read the Dr Lue case study on here again and saw what you were talking about Hawk.  He says it may make the condition worse. or it may help.  It may have even have helped give men the Peyronies Disease.  I don't think i'm gonna risk it right now.

Got my first doctor to phone in a prescription for pentox ahead of my appointment tomorrow (i had been bugging him for records all day).  Anyway took my first pill a few hours ago and seems to be doing something.  my penis is palpitating away from my body then back towards my body.  Not having an erection it's just moving up and down while i lay on my side.   Kind of freaking me out but not hurting.   Anyone experienced this?

Anyway i'm thinking it's better to give pentox a chance without the Cialis initially.  That's my plan anyway.
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funnyfarm

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2013, 01:08:35 AM »

I took cialis for about 6 wks and noticed no changes in inflammation or scar tissue, so I stopped taking it.

The side effects were minimum, so I would be willing to try it for a longer period, if I read about some promising anecdotal experiences here. So far I don't recall any positive results though, other the ED related issues.

Nevertheless, thank you for sharing the study Skunk. 
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ashtown

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2013, 05:35:06 AM »

I have recently seen a massive drop in inflammation and plaque size that occurred very rapidly but it has only come about shortly after a significant change in diet. That isn't enough on its own to tell me whether Pentox and Cialis etc are useful or even if the change in diet is wholly responsible. All I can say is that I saw no real improvement in my condition following more than six months of medicines and supplements until I changed my diet.

I'm not about to stop taking Pentox or Cialis but purely looking at my own experience I have to wonder if diet alone is enough to stop some of us from healing. What I find surprising (disappointing) is that no doctor I have seen has yet mentioned diet in any way.
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koss

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2013, 07:34:08 AM »

What is your diet like now?
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Hawk

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2013, 08:52:12 AM »

What I find surprising (disappointing) is that no doctor I have seen has yet mentioned diet in any way.

Doctors have no training in diet.  That is an entirely different field with its own PhD's that disagree.  During a 90 minute long consultation with a French surgeon who is literally world renown for developing a specific type of surgery, I asked if there were any supplements or foods that increase or decrease the chances of cancer from metastasizing.  I was so struck by his honesty, sincerity, and humility, when he just slowly shrugged his shoulders and said, "what do I know?  I am but a surgeon." 

Also everybody is different.  Some people have allergies to one food that others do not have. Some synthesis nutrients more efficiently than others.  We can only expect so much.  Our doctors cannot be specialists in every field. They excel at one thing.  The human capacity to excel at multiple things is limited.  Human knowledge is very limited.  Unless we somehow arrive at a time when we truly have an integrated team approach to medicine in dealing with every disease this will always be the way it is.  One person cannot know everything and as you will notice, the world is already having to become more and more specialized as each year ticks by.

Here is a cute but insightful illustration The illustrated guide to a Ph.D. The last 2 frames are insightful.  How the world looks to a specialist and how it really is.
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ashtown

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2013, 11:53:18 AM »

What is your diet like now?

In a nutshell I've now cut out all sugar and sweetener, while avoiding anything with additives or chemicals along with dairy products and unrefined carbohydrates like pasta and white bread. I am now concentrating on eating lots of raw vegetables and some fruit.
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skunkworks

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2013, 08:20:10 PM »

What is your diet like now?

In a nutshell I've now cut out all sugar and sweetener, while avoiding anything with additives or chemicals along with dairy products and unrefined carbohydrates like pasta and white bread. I am now concentrating on eating lots of raw vegetables and some fruit.

Sounds like a great change, very similar to what I did a year or so ago and it treated me very well also. We really do need a nutrition thread, but it does become an emotional subject for some.

koss

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2013, 01:19:55 AM »

ashtown, what are the results with plaque or angle,concerning this diet? In another words,how will know it is working for me? Now I except meat only,eat chicken instead of it. Bread isn't also in my meal.
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ashtown

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2013, 03:54:15 AM »

ashtown, what are the results with plaque or angle,concerning this diet? In another words,how will know it is working for me? Now I except meat only,eat chicken instead of it. Bread isn't also in my meal.

First of all Koss, I've only been trying this for a very short period and I'm still making adjustments. Like everything you'll need to give it some time.

There hasn't been any kind of miracle overnight cure for me but the signs have been encouraging because the denting and twist I had before are gone and that follows about 8 months in which things only got worse previously. The scar now seems smaller, softer and more concentrated at the bottom of my penis. I guess you could say it just feels less damaged and inflamed, though my curvature when erect is still very much present along with some hourglass effect. Pain while flaccid or erect has disappeared completely but that could also be partly down to Pentox etc. 

There was another recent thread started by Corvette2010 on this very subject where he completely overhauled his diet and saw significant improvement after about 3 months Whole foods plant based diet - Peyronies Society Forums
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phatcat

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2013, 01:42:45 AM »

I ended up ordering some cialis, then shortly afterwards, read an article that made me afraid to use it: Peyronie’s Treatment and Cialis - Peyronie's Disease Institute   the article says that the cialis can lead to a dangerous amount of pressure inside the penis.    Does that sound plausible to anyone?

Anyway it's short so you can read for yourself but it basically says not to use cialis unless you have ed or you could do damage to yourself. 

The stuff was expensive so i'm a little disappointed i might not even use it. 

What do you guys think?  Aside from the question of whether or not cialis will help me, will it/can it hurt me?
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ashtown

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2013, 03:09:57 AM »

Ah yes the Peyronie's Disease Institute. The place where everything they sell is wonderful and everything they can't sell seems to get trashed as useless or dangerous. I find that site incredibly cynical.
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muffslayer

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2013, 05:21:57 AM »

2.5mg cialis I think is ok. But when ever I have more, anything between 10-50mg, my peyronie's always majorly worsens afterward. Same with viagra, I get a great hard straight erection (maybe pentox causes straightness, while pde-5 inhibitor causes hardness), but my penis becomes all weird nodule hard and bent after ejaculation.

Also food I can vouch for this. I think I recently made my peyronies a lot worse because of my diet. I went on the atkins diet, and though eating a lot of meat doesn't seem to effect my peyronie's, what type of meat I eat definitely does. The main one I've found is bacon. Try eating a lot of bacon, whether fried or grilled (with the fat drained), and see how hard flaccid your penis becomes.

Something I'm looking into is the amino acid L Threonine, which some people said on this forum they came up deficient in. Threonine is a main component in forming proteins, collagen, elastin and tooth enamel. It is also crucial for the production of neurotransmitters and overall health of the nervous system.

I bought L Threonine Powder from http://www.tradeingredients.com/; and this has got to be the easiest amino acid to consume. It tastes really sweet, just like sugar. The only other amino acid that I've tried that taste like this is glycine, which is actually converted from threonine.

Lastly I tried a megadosing of fish oil experiment, 30g a day for about a month. Didn't really do anything, my penis did become softer and stuff while on it but otherwise my penis seems worse off a month later, which I think this is down to bacon.
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james1947

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2013, 06:46:01 PM »

I will second ashtown last post
and for me Pentox is number 1, combined with low dose Cialis.

James
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phatcat

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2013, 02:29:49 PM »

So you guys are right.  I saw Dr Lue on tuesday and he told me to try some viagra, although i think i'll take cialis instead. 

He didn't give me a prescription though.  He said i would have to get one from my PCP because school policy prohibits him from giving it out (he works for UCSF).  So that seems to be the reason he doesn't prescribe PDE5 inhibitors

I asked him about it hurting me by increasing the pressure and he said that's BS so disregard my last post.  He said a low dose is fine.
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cheeznips

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2017, 01:17:24 PM »

Quote deleted by moderator. Please read the forum rules.
Answer by click on Replay and not Quote button.


is 5mg considered low dosage?
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james1947

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2017, 02:30:39 PM »

5 mg is the dose to take daily if you have ED.
If no ED, 2.5 mg will be OK

James
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alex_di

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2017, 08:10:26 AM »

[Full quote removed- please use reply instead]

It was prescribed by your doctor?
Want to do the same.
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james1947

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2017, 04:03:23 AM »

Yes, Cialis prescribed together with Pentox

James
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skunkworks

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2017, 09:56:03 AM »

dplookin

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2017, 10:47:27 AM »

Skunkworks...........Interesting article.  It would help if they would explain some of this stuff so the common person could understand all of it.  But interesting.  Now if I only had a lifetime supply of Cialis.  I've been fighting with the loss of 3 inches in length and a 90 degree bend since 2013 with no improvement.  But, I had to take a couple of years off from working on the problem due to Cancer, and I'm trying to get back to trying to solve the problem.  Thanks for the info.........dplookin
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Tsanchez12369

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2017, 11:10:21 AM »

If the cost of cialis is prohibitive, one can buy US manufactured tadalafil online.  Just google tadalafil and peptides for options to buy.  I use Blue Sky and have no association even them except as customer.  The product is sold fir "research" purposes so no prescription is necessary.  Just an option and I apologize if this type of post is not allowed and needs to be edited or removed.
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skunkworks

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Re: Cialis for healing not ED
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2017, 01:11:55 AM »

All those research places source their raw powers from China, it's not USA made.
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