Psychological Component - Coping with Peyronie's Disease

[Christine]

I have finally come to believe, however, what women have been telling us guys for centuries (probably)... "Its not the penis, dummy. Its who its attached to."

To that I say AMEN brother!!    It's a very true statement for many more women out there than you men realize.  

Reach out and touch her heart, and connect with her soul and you will be quite surprised how close that will bring the two of you and how much more satisfying your relationship will be.

In comparison to that....sexual intercourse is highly overrated in my opinion.

Blessings to you,

Christine

[ThisSux]

I hear what you are saying Christine but I am afraid my girlfriend is not typical.

We often say that she is the stereotypical man in the relationship when it comes to emotions and sex and I think it is true.

She doesn't like talking about problems.
She tends to shut down emotionally when things are tough.
She will get pissed off or frustrated if I am not into sex on a certain day.

Don't get me wrong, she is very affectionate its just that she is not emotional in the way you depict. She would NEVER say anything like "touch my heart".

On the other hand I am the exact opposite, which makes things tough. I always want to talk out problems etc...

[Liam]

If she is more like the stereotypical man, just ask her.  Thats what I would want.  "If I become impotent will you stay with me?"  The question will not change what happens.  If her answer is yes, great!  If it is no, you are just finding out earlier.

However, having said that, I probably would say nothing and enjoy what I have.  I just find it easier to take things as they come and try to roll with the punches.  Worrying never changes anything.  Yes, communicate if there is a problem.  

This worries me because although she is understanding of my condition now, what if we get married and then several years down the line my Peyronies Disease progresses to impotence...? How can I possibly know she will stick with me?

But, don't manufacture a problem where one doesn't exist.  Playing "what if" will make you crazy.

Liam

[ThisSux]

Thanks Liam,

For the past two years I have been going with the idea you express here. I just told her that I had an injury and that we have to be careful. She can't be on top...no rodeo style sex...etc

I don't think she really understands that things could get worse.

In a way I do think just asking her would be the right idea except that she has had a pretty rough life and I don't really want to affect her overall well-being by giving her something else to worry about.

It is a careful line to walk...but I DO need to know. I am actually thinking of seeing a therapist to discuss these issues (mostly the relationship). I just have this overwhelming feeling that if she is not going to be okay then we should end it

[Hawk]

TS,

I think I can kind of feel your dilemma.  I am thinking out-loud here more than I am taking a stand.  I think both you and Liam make good points.  It does somewhat seem however that your position is : If there is a chance the relationship could end over this in the future then lets end it for certain right now.  How certainly can she even know the answer to your question?  Maybe in  5 years you will grow so close and mature in different ways that she would never leave.  Possibly you will have other issues undermining your relationship and break-up could follow even without Peyronies Disease being added to the mix.  Half the people that expect to stay together forever don't.  Should they all just end the relationship now because of the potential for breakup?

Garth Brooks had an old song out that expressed a sentiment something like: "life, is better left to chance, I could have missed the pain, But then I would have had to miss, the dance "  

Doesn't covering all bases to protect ourselves from future pain, also ensure we will never live and experience any real joy?  Like you and most people, I like to be sure of what I can and cannot count on, but somethings have value for what they were, for the joy and experiences that existed, not just for the unpredictable way in which they ended.

Any of us can wake up to find it all interrupted because of any one of a thousand events.  Even if she stays through Peyronies Disease, should you check to see if a nuclear holocaust with anarchy would drive her away?  What about dementia, incontinence, cancer, stroke, accident, or financial disaster?  

We have to strike a balance between living in the moment and deferring our gratification.  All of either extreme can make for an unsuccessful life.  Bask in the joy you have.  


Hawk

[Christine]

TS,

One thought on the topic.....

If the roles were reversed and it was SHE that was suffering from a condition that "could" "possibly" in "in the future" render her unable to have normal intercourse.... but she would still be able to love you.have intimacy in other ways, and generally engage in an honest, committed and loving relationship.

Would you consider leaving her now?

I guess the question you need to ask yourself is how committed are you to her?  Are you willing to be upfront, honest, and forthcoming about your feelings and willing to let her share in your life completely and together work though the good AND bad times as they come in life?

You are young and Hawk is very correct.  There will be many many things that will befall you and cause you to pause in life.  Are you sure that you want to allow Peyronies Disease to control your path in this way?

The good thing is that you are not married at this time so you can really soul search your hearts and come to that conclusion and go forward in whatever way you decide your path should lead.

Don't let something that "may happen" destroy what you have today especially when you are not sure how the person you love feels about it.

Think about it.

Christine

[ThisSux]

Christine,

Thanks for your insight. I have thought about this many times myself but the problem is that she and I are both very different. Sex to me is something that is great but not a deal-breaker. I would not leave her and would probably just stick to masturbation.

We have had a very unusual relationship... basically we had sex many years ago and were intimate etc... then we didn't see each other for years. When we restarted the relationship we were together for only a couple of times, and then I had had this injury.

We didn't have sex for an entire year after my injury. I was just very freaked out, worried, embarrassed etc. I am sure many guys here can relate. During this time, she was a wreck. She began to seriously resent me for it and in general did not act very compassionate and understanding. I wanted to go to couples counseling and she refused. She told me at one point that if we didn't have sex soon she would sleep with someone else. Note that I have no reason to suspect she would cheat or has cheated in general. It was a very shocking thing for her to say.

Eventually I overcame many of the issues I was dealing with and we did start having sex again (been about 9 months now). This was NOT a result of her threat, but just my coming to terms with things. I am sure she has forgotten that she said such a thing, but I have not.

Part of me wants to believe that what she was really upset about was a lack of intimacy, but it is hard for me to know for sure. For me intimacy can be sitting on the couch next to each other, but she has more physical needs. I do admit that we didn't even really "make out" or kiss much during this time.


-M

If the roles were reversed and it was SHE that was suffering from a condition that "could" "possibly" in "in the future" render her unable to have normal intercourse.... but she would still be able to love you.have intimacy in other ways, and generally engage in an honest, committed and loving relationship.

Would you consider leaving her now?

Think about it.

Christine

[Liam]

It seems if she had the desire to to sleep with someone else, she would have just done it.  I mean.... after a year....and you are not married or anything.

It was a very shocking thing for her to say.

Going a whole year without sex even though you had the ability to is shocking, too.

She probably was not serious with the threat.  I bet she didn't even intend for you to take it seriously.  She was probably trying to shake you out of the funk you had gotten yourself into.  BTW, if she was serious, thats nuts.  Just dump her.  I don't think she was, though.

You have marginal symptoms of Peyronies Disease at the worst.  I mean you are still "functional" sexually.  You are worrying for nothing.  I fear your anxiety is a worse problem than anything happening with your penis.  The anxiety is making you dysfunctional and may become the reason for her leaving.  If you treat the psychological, the physical will not seem so much of a problem.

Good Luck!

[Jandro]

Hello everybody, I am new to this forum and I'd like to first give thanks to all those who have made it easier to discuss peyronie's disease in an open forum.  I am a 22 year old male who has been suffering with this condition for the greater part of my life and this is one of the few outlets I've come across to discuss both the physiological and psychological components of the illness. The disease has had a very debilitating influence on my life so far, and I'd like to share my problem and would appreciate any advise.  The whole left side of my shaft is very scarred and can not maintain rigidity during an erection. There is a bend in the left shaft also and it causes my penis to hang down and curve to the left, what I believe is called the hinge effect?  This makes intercourse difficult to impossible because of the lack of rigidity.  Psychologically, this is very hard on me because I believe myself to be a good looking and good natured guy, but this disease really affects my confidence in everyday life.  I can't compartmentalize the anxiety, it seeps into my everyday life like a poison and really brings me down.

With this said, I decided that I can not continue to let this disease ruin my life and emotions and am taking the steps to try and fix it.  Overall, I can say I'm pretty happy with my life except when it comes to girls and relationships, which is obviously the hardest things to deal with with this disease.  I had a steady girlfriend for a couple of years who I was completely open with about the disease, and she was very accepting and we dealt with it the best we could.  However, I am now single and into the dating scene, and this is where alot of my anxiety comes from.  I have girls interested in me but I many times don't pursue them because in the past I have gotten into intimate situations with women and not been able to perform.  This makes me feel horribly inadequite and completely destroys the thrill and excitement that one should feel when in an intimate situation.  Currently I started seeing this girl for a couple of months now, and we've successfully had sex in the past, but recently I havn't been able to perform and I'm running out of exscuses why we dont have sex.  I've read the advise posted by people on this forum about what to do in this situation, it seems that the general consensus is to trust in your partner and if she's willing, work through it.  I believe this to be good advise, but not necessarily for someone in my position who isn't ready to settle down or be in a serious relationship.  To explain further, I like this girl and she likes me, but I don't feel ready enough to trust her with such sensitive information that could get around to others in my college community because I have no idea how she would react.  Does anyone have advise on how to handle dating situations with peyronies disease?  What is a good way to tell someone that there is a problem in the sexual arena without revealing too much information that could possibly be leaked?

The second question I have is more important.  I just started seeing a urologist in order to begin my treatment.  After the first session he concluded right away that I would need surgery, despite his reluctance because of it being the last option.  I have read some of the postings on this website and others that state that if surgery is needed, a patient should seek a uro who specializes in it, rather than a general uro.  Does anyone have any advise on the steps that should be taken by the uro before surgery, such as xrays, ultrasounds, or anything like that? I"m very new to this so any suggestions would be helpful.  Also, does anyone know any surgeons in the Southern California area that specialize in surgical procedures to correct peyronies disease?  It gives me hope to know that I'm not alone in this fight like I believed myself to be for a lot of years, and I'd like to thank everyone in advance for being able to honestly and openly discuss their illness and the pains associated with it. God bless.

[Hawk]

Hello Jandro,  A warm welcome to the PDS forum.

Your post was articulate.  It is clear you have the attitude and skills necessary to successfully confront these challenges.

I am not being hard on you here, I may just be out of touch.  I am not sure I have the advice on how to  reveal enough to an uncommitted partner to explain the situation and yet have assurance that only comes with intimate trust.  It seems you may be asking to attain 2 mutually exclusive situations to say, lets have recreational or casual sex but I must be able to have intimate trust that you will keep my "secret" so I can date other women.  Others may have better advice.

I do however have 2 names in Calif for you.  My guess is that either would be sound choices but i would tend toward the one furthest from you.  Others here may have personal experience and I would suggest that you do a forum search of these doctor's last name to see any posts that may mention them by name.  Most members that have experience will gladly be very frank with you by post or in a Personal Message.  If you have specific questions on these doctors you can post it under. "urologists and Other Doctors" https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,21.0.html

Welcome again and I look forward to your posts and interaction on the forum.

Martin Gelbard
Urology Associates Medical Group
2601 West Alameda Avenue Suite 416
Burbank, CA 91505
Phone: (818)843-1700
Burbank Urology Associates Medical Group


Dr. Tom Lue
Department of Urology, UCSF
http://urology.ucsf.edu/faculty/facLue.html

[Tim468]

Hi Jandro,

A quick note. Because of the problems that you are dealing with, you are going to lose out on some of the common experiences of men growing up. That is something to grieve - for it is a loss. As an older man who went through Peyronie's at 20, I understand how that feels.

But it is important to remember that what you are losing is not catastrophic. You are losing the ability to easily engage in mindless and disconnected sex with women that you barely know. And in fact, if you are desparate, why you can do it anyway-  just at a price in self-esteem.

So, though it is absolutely true that you "ought" to be having sex only with women with whom you are ready to be truly intimate (and thus willing to share secrets with), it is a reality at your age that men and women are willing (and interested) in doing more than just that. So feel sad about that loss.

However, that does not mean that you cannot have mind-blowing sex, that you cannot heal, that you cannot be fixed surgically if need be, or that you can never be happy. All of that is within your grasp. So, you ar right to start with an aggressive workup to decide what is wrongm and how to fix it. You are right to seek out very skilled help. Hawk gave you some good names. Good luck with this.

Tim

[voulezvous]

Jandro:

I believe that Hawk is right on in distinguishing your Peyronies Disease issue from your desire to "not settle down." We can't have it both ways.

I have been with 2 women since becoming affected. Both were & are very understanding & both did their best to support my decreasing libido. In the end, however, the relationships failed BUT neither are out there passing on intimate information. Why? Because I never treated them in anything but a respectful manner & we parted ways on a cordial basis.

In other words, if you are honest upfront about both your Peyronies Disease and your reluctance to enter into a long term relationship, I doubt that you will be a point of ridicule or abuse. Yes, there are women who will share information about lovers indiscriminately but that happens to men regularly, with or without Peyronies Disease. As a rule, I must say that women are way less prone to spread ugly personal gossip. It usually occurs when there is a need to "get back" at someone who has hurt them first.

[ninjagaiden]

Wow, I fell on the hardcore theme, the psychological part of the disease...

Some people react better than others when challenged by life, some take their sword and stand up (and stand really erect  , sorry for the joke, but we're all more or left in the same boat) and they consider this as a challenge in their life that they have to overcome...
And some sit down and cry...

But at some point anyway these 2 kind of people probably share their respective attitude... cause you can't always fight, and you can't always cry, right?

So if you love the girl and think she can bring you true love, just go for it. Otherwise, what are you gonna do? Sit down in a corner and wait for the girl to go away? In the end no one is made for loneliness...  You'll miss lots of good moments in order to protect yourself from being hurt... And maybe one will don't care about this problem and if can't perform maybe she won't mind because she won't be a sex--driven woman...

Also for the "I can't perform sex" stuff, I believe that a girl who love you (if she knows what it means) will accept that you're not a sex-machine or some king of ever-ready porn actor. For my part, I've been almost ridiculous on the first night with my girlfriends (especially the first 2, couldn't get it hard out of stress    ) So don't worry, she'll take you as you are, and if it doesn't work sometimes, she won't leave you for that, you know. Unless she is what we call a bitch, and that's not the kind of girl you need...

So don't let the good ones go away, and stay away from the girls that you feel they won't understand you... Cause these ones won't be there to raise you up when things turn sour (not talking about peyronies but also the other challenges in life...).

You can also get run over by a car at any stage of your life, or get you dick chewed off by an aggressive pitbull   so don't think you'll only have this peyronies problem to deal with in your life,
so go for it and stop asking yourself the "what if" questions. Take the good moments while they're here...

Normally my intimate POV in not so optimistic, but I hate seeing people down. Cheer up and catch a nice, kind girl...
And send us a picture of her! ha ha  
Take care, mate.

[Liam]

Ninja,

You are wise beyond your years!

[ninjagaiden]

That's why I'm a ninja!!
Otherwise I would have chosen "dumbass gladiator" as a nickname  

Sorry... just being childish  

But I think a smart and compassionate woman will understand problems like that... At least better than a girl who looks for
college sex and "have fuuuuuuun!!!!".
At least when a good girl is around, give it a try... She may not stay with you forever, but they're are so many "parameters" in life and so many reasons why she would stick to you or leave you... The sex matter is probably important for young women, but I guess some women are not so much driven by it later on (in their 30s) and it may be other factors (like having low self-esteem, being pessimistic, or being "bad company" in a word) that may make her leave you...

The psychological consequences of this disease might be the reason why she leaves you, not the disease in itself...

I know it's full of cliché, romanticism, and general common sense, but I'm just 25, I can't tell more than that... I'm not experienced enough to know the women and their deep nature (but can any guy do it??   )

I tell you, they're all crazy, bottom line! So pick the less crazy and love her!  
At least you would have taken the chance... and not just have sit on your ass...
At some point we might take some time to stop and consider the risks and the "what if" questions, but we all know, again, that we're not meant to be alone, so we have to go forward and find the right person...
...

CRAZY, all of them!!!

[Hawk]

The French must be born with something that helps them understand women  

Welcome to the forum again Ninja.  You have good posts plus they make me smile.

Hawk

[ninjagaiden]

Thanks, Hawk.
I try to be as cheerful as I can be in my situation (we're all in the same boat, no good to bring the others down).
I won't be like that all the time, but I'll try to avoid the pessimistic stuff as much as possible, since pessimism leads to nowhere.

Good to know I can talk a bit to people who're living the same things (I don't talk about this to my family, no need to make them worry about me).

So YOU guys will be worried about me, ha ha ha, I'm not leaving this place, you got to bear me till the End of Time  
Joking if course...

[Jandro]

Thanks to Hawk, Tim468, voulezvous, and ninjagaiden for all your insights and encouraging words.  They really are empowering and I'm going to keep them in my mind and make better decisions when the chances arise. In other words you guys rock and thanks for all the information and advise!

[ninjagaiden]

The following quote was inserted by Hawk to put this post by Ninja in context.  The quote is from the "Erectile Dysfunction" topic. Everything below the quote is the untouched response by Ninja as he wrote it.  You can click on the quote header to go to Tim's entire post and the posts that preceded it on the ED topic.

Antony,

... So, you say that you will "ask about" pentox, but I suggest that you READ about it using the articles that I posted for you over two weeks ago. I am sorry to sound so blunt - for I have great feelings of empathy and sorrow for what you have suffered. But I have also suffered, as have many men here who can no longer have intercourse either. You are not alone. Instead of listing how many ways in which you are different (and therefore "worse") I hope you can start to see how you are not so isolated or alone. You are not the only guy whose life is altered in a way that is depressing and frustrating. Yet you will see, along with the depression, signs of hope and optimism here as well - and that is not because they "don't have it as bad as you". It is due to doing the work of recovery that we must all do to heal our hearts. And if you listen long enough you will also hear the words of the women who love men despite their failure to have a perfect penis any more.

You can heal either medically or surgically - that is a fact - though it may entail spending time and money and feeling sad. But for now, it may be of more help to get going on the "recovery" part of what you are facing.

Tim

Hi guys,

Been away a few days (doing brickwork in my house , I've just read the last days' posts, and to me Tim,you're a bit tough on Antony. To me, we're all in the same boat living positive and negative things because of our "functional" problems...

But I think that some people do live harder situations than others (when you face total sexual disfunction at 25, it's different from telling that you slept with Tons of women by the age of 30. You wanna kill the kid mentally? or make him envious?

I know that's not what you intend to say, but man, it's not good telling a young guy that (despite your problems) you could get lots of ladies in your bed (or car, or wherever, that's not the matter  ).

But I agree with you, it may take Antony time to recover (1-2 years according to you), but don't blame him for talking about his feelings, since contrary to you, he can't be sexually active, where you were sexually active at his age...     >that's 2 completely different situations<

You said you wanted to prove things to women when you were his age...
Ok, now, if we told you that you could not perform anylonger (sorry, I hate the word impotent) at 25, right in the middle of your women-hunting game, would you have smiled and said "no problem"?
I guess not. But correct me if I'm wrong.

Please don't take offence Tim, I take all your other advice as good advice, but the telling-off part was not cool on this young guy.

By the way Antony, what are the docs names? (the Monday appointment + the November specialist). And again, take your treatment, I'm sure your situation will improve.  

[antony]

Hello Ninja ,

Don't know how old are you, but you exactly understood how i can feel, and what i live, and since the begining of this fuking problem,  i argued severly even with my own father who had told me (before realizing it was really serious, then he apologized) 'it's ok , if it was me i  would live it diferently' and i answered f**k, you are 60 and you tell me that, but when you were 25, you loved have sex or catch girls, the same as me, how would you have react at my age?'
Some days later he really realized about what was my situation.

Everybody is like he is, as for me until January i'd like a lot go to parties, going out with girls, it was cool, no problem, and SUDENLY, i become TOTALLY impotent (coz that's the word). It's more than everybody of this age who dont live it can think. It means really more than what people who dont live it can imagine. It's your life who disapears, exactly as the same way of somedody who lose one arm, one leg, his eyes, or have a serious disease. I lost one part of my body, and the part of both pleasure and life.

By this problem, it's a whole life and its future which is sudenly in question. It's a personality which is destroyed. It's a way of life that can't exist anymore. It's your activities and pleasures that die. It's all your proaches who feel bad and you see less. It's a physical apearance which becomes crap ( eat few, sleep few, etc). It's your money who disapeared in so many useless very expensive apointements. It's your nervous capacity which is ataked when you listen to stupid doctors say 'nothing important', it's hatred when some months later they say 'ok it's serious and definitive', that's the envy of suicide when you know that normally today i should earn my money by doing my passion, my dream,and finally i live like a sh..t, and i still don't understand how it could happen, how all was destroyed in one night. It's the madness when you realize you have become the oposite of what you are normally (i.e, used to have lots of nice girlfriends, now avoid a girl, used to go out a lot, now stay alone in my room, used to be sportive, now dont go out at football matches anymore, etc etc etc). If you just don't understand how it can have so bad and numerous consequences, i would just say that the few other people of my age who have that problem, react exactly the same way and live it exactly the same....

So, telling it doesn't change my situation, but it was to say that you're right ninja. After it's no matter if Tim tells what he thinks, and give good advice, but by living what i live at this age, and in that way of total impotence (and other numerous horible symptoms i told ), only the people who live it can realise how it is (by the way i know 2 other people in france who have that and have the same dark ideas, and i would add lots have dark ideas for really less important than that).

[ninjagaiden]

Yep, Liam's right, I believe depression makes things worse (both psychologically and physically, it cause worse erections, so it's harder to recover...

Take the Welbutrin for your mind, + psychologist if you feel the need. The advice :"exercise", is good, but I know that with a depressed mood, it's even harder practicing... I myself have hard time practicing because of the mood, but I force myself, and it does more good than it does harm.


So you have to start from "healing your mind", and then you exercise in order to get in better shape, more testosteron release, better erections, and so on...
Hey, another Rocky quote, I know you guys love them : "There's no eaaaasy way ouuuut!" (Rocky 4 soundtrack).
I think that's true, there is indeed no easy way out for us, but there is a way out, and that's whatever it takes , even if it means penile prosthesis. But you're not there yet, continue with your treatment.

I understand you cause I'm 25 too, even though my problems are not severe.
I looove people who talk about suicide (let's be frank with the words) when all they have to worry about is a mild depression...
They don't know how lucky they are. It's like the 70 year-old guys that you talked about, who complain about less rigidity in their toy...
Man, what a hard life they have.

My dad knows "a bit" of my problem, he had a similar reaction to your dad. It took a little while to sink in, and then he seemed to understand. But that did not improve our relationship for more than a week, people have short memories  

[Liam]

It is important to know this.  You cannot make reasonable decisions about life and death (or anything major) while depressed.  It is like asking a blind person about what color something is.  Drinking will make your depression worse.  Most illegal drugs make it worse in the long run.

Bottom line, if you are thinking about suicide (or even just morbid thoughts), GET MEDICAL HELP NOW!  It is an illness, not a weakness!

If you have threatened suicide (even not seriously) get help now.

[Tim468]

Sorry if I seemed tough. My point is that I too developed Peyronie's at a young age (20), so I do not need to hear about how much "worse" it is to get it young - that already happened to me - that was my experience.

My point about my sexual history was lost I guess. It is that by acting in crazy ways, we hurt ourself emotionally. Yes, I was still able to get an erection, but it was more difficult and it seemed to me to be deformed as well (but at least it worked). But I made myself crazy trying to get more sex, desperate to use it before it was gone.

I now see that I wasted time at twenty that could have been spent in taking care of myself in more healthy ways.

That is my point.

Taking care of ourselves does not mean never feeling sorry for ourselves, but not living there in sorrow forever either. I believe that Antony has a choice to make. He can either seek healing and start the work of healing, or he can quit trying. But through trying to get better, we heal in many other ways. If a career, and earning capacity, and a job, and all semblance of affection and love of the company of women is gone, then that is a dysfunctional response (dysfunctional in that it does not promote healing). For Antony's sake, I hope that changes. But severe ED, at any age does not cause the loss of, say, a job. Depression and withdrawal causes that to happen. Not to say that one should feel rosy and cheerful, but Peyronie's does not "make that happen" - not at any age.

So while I am very sympathetic to his plight, and perhaps some have missed how I have tried to point out that some of us have shared his plight, I feel like he would benefit more from honesty and direction. I have given the best advice I can about how to start to get better, in terms of self care of the heart, in terms of medicines and drugs (and the reasons behind that) - and what anyone does with any advice is up to them, not me. I just hope that, Antony, you do not fail to see what is right out in front of you being offered, just because of your sorrow and grief.

Tim

[Hawk]

Anthony,

I will be brief.  Both you and Ninja talk about how people get depressed from little problems and it makes you laugh.  You say that you have to have a big problem to even understand.

I suggest to you that our problems would make some laugh, laugh for joy.  Spend a day in a big city cancer hospital where every soul there has cancer and many hundreds of people your age are holding on to an IV cart trying to get the strength to walk down the hall.  Go to a children's ward where Tim works and watch parents suffer as they watch their children suffer and die.  Go to a hospital where men your age have no legs or are paralyzed.  Ask any of them how serious they think our problems are.  Some will get mad, some will laugh, some will look in your eyes and tell you to focus on what you have and be happy.

It is scary, but in an instant you could be pleading to just turn the clock back to where you are today. In an instant we could all plead just to have the problems we now curse.  

It is all about attitude.  It is all about perspective.  It is all about what you choose to dwell on.

PS: You say this is not a psychological forum.  You are wrong.  In truth it is only the psychological aspects of this disease that can destroy us and our loved ones.  It is only the psychological aspects of this disease for which there is proven, reliable help.

[ninjagaiden]

Just wanted  to say my POV about the attitude that I think is best to adopt when facing a guy in distress... (the attitude facing a damsel in distress varies greatly, so let's stick to the 1st example ):

I think indifference, partial or total, only raises bad feelings for the guy who suffers. Either pseudo-indifference is given in return, or more usually anger. If the anger can't be turned outwards (like cursing the advisor), it's I think automatically turned inwards, and I think we all agree that it's no good (to say it simply).

The best docs I've seen were the ones who showed they understood my situation (of they faked damn well understanding ) . Even if they didn't heal me, at least they were not cold-hearted fools waiting for my banknotes.
I always take the advice better when it's said with understanding of my condition. But maybe it's the way I am, maybe some people need indifference and coldness in order to take action.

I take care of myself, and I don't need people to bring me up (really), I always keep my self-esteem low, and I like it this way (it makes oneself more humble I think), but for some reason, if a friend comes to me and complain, I try the harder I can to cheer him up. Because as long as he's down, he's not likely to take action to improve his situation.

The guy who tells me, "hey why d'you complain? You still got your 2 legs!",
well, I tend to disrespect his next advice for some reason.

So let's not be mellow, but let's show compassion and a guy will listen to our avice and then he'll take action. Beat a dog and it'll bite you.

Ok, I stop here with my preaching. Have a nice day you all!

[Hawk]

I guess the written word loses something at times such as the exchanged eye contact, the hand on the shoulder.  However, I believe that true compassion means doing what it takes to deliver the message of relief.

At about 13 yrs old I mentioned to a teacher how my oldest sister was somewhat stern and that my other older sister was my favorite because she always seemed to understand me.  I will never forget the teacher saying. "do you mean she always understands you or that she always agrees with you?  They are very different things you know."  It was one those enlightening moments that I thought about many many times.  After a bit of pondering I came to the conclusion that you have already guessed.  Most often, my oldest sister disagreed with me precisely because she understood me better than my "favorite' and agreeable sister.  While I love them both, you can also guess which one I call if I need some practical advice.

The worst thing we can do to a child with a handicap is to make them feel dependent and sorry for the tough breaks life has dealt them.  It is also the worst thing we can do for ourselves and for each other.  Agreement and a listening soul are great, but there is also the time for those that exactly understand our struggles to show the way to peace and improvement.  To do less would be cruel.  I view Tim's advice as the highest form of compassion.  He sees suffering and people fighting against adversity every day of his life yet he takes the time to share what he has learned from life and decades with Peyronies Disease.

There comes a time when you have to trust the wisdom of those that walked the road and who are miles ahead of you on the journey, especially when everything you are trying brings no psychological relief.

I think all of these posts are worth rereading.

[ninjagaiden]

Dear Hawk,

I didn't see some of the posts, I've just read them now.

I guess it's all about perspective as you said. Each of us has his opinion, his life experience and I have to respect them. But still I disagree with them.

First, I want to  say that I understand that children afflicted with cancer is devastating for the parents and unfair to the kids. There are many more people living real dramas out there, and I understand that.
I'm usually a guy who weighs his words before talking, we were just talking about how some people come to you and complain about their job, their life (I mean, not serious matters). Some people go to the doctor 3 times a month for no reason, just in order to reassure themselves.

In short, some people are professionnal whiners, if you know what I mean... Some people spend their life complaining, while they are healthy. And I just told Antony to avoid such company, because these people will make him go angry inside, because they don't have life-shattering problems like, in Antony's case, impotence.
 
Hawk I understand now, that Tim must see very worse cases than Antony's, I don't question that.

But when you tell a guy, "I've been there at 20", you should talk about the same thing. Peyronies at 20 (curvature) and impotence (at about the same age) are to me 2 completely different life experiences.

So if I'm to tell a guy "I've been there, that's not the end of the world", I make sure I'm talking about the same matter. Like a one legged man who tells off a man with no legs.

I understand that some people can be a bit straigthforward because they see harder things in their daily life (like Tim's experience with kids and cancer), but in the end, that's not showing understanding.

Sorry for my words, and again, please don't take offence, that's not my intention. That's also the opinion of a 25 year old unexperienced kid, so in the end, my opinion does not weigh much compared to yours who have seen probably more things than I have.
I've just reread my post and I don't think it's even worth a reply. Sorry but I could not resist replying to what was said.

In the end, Hawk, I agree with your conclusion. We, as young guys, may not see the way you see life because you have more experience. So that's why I tend to disagree, but maybe at 50 I'll agree with you... Again, it's a problem of perspective...

Thanks for your wise words, and to Tim for sharing his experience.

Bye.

[Hawk]

I almost have to wonder if we have either a language barrier or a culture barrier here because Tim certainly never sounded like he was telling anyone off to me.  Maybe as you said, the way you read that revolves around unresolved issues in your own childhood.  For the record, I just happened to send Tim a pm just the other day thanking him for several things.  Chief on the list was his compassion that has helped me tap into my own compassion a little more.  I never suggested his work or his life made him a bit more blunt, but rather given him a well developed sense of compassion and perspective on successfully battling life's many problems.

Children may or may not see the big complex picture but I just watched a 9 year old go through gut wrenching chemo and passing his intestinal lining with his bowl movements.  At one very bad point he said, "Mom, you don't know what it is like to have cancer" .  His tearful mother replied, " You are right Joseph, I don't know what it is like, but I do know what it is like to have a little boy that has cancer.  Parents know the complexity of life and suffering and would trade any hope of ever having another sexual experience to free their children from such suffering.  I was very much speaking of adult suffering and illustrating millions of people that face challenges of a greater magnitude and how they cope.

You are new to the forum so I want you to know my opinion carries no more weight than your opinion here.  Unless I sign a post as the administrator, I speak as a member just like you.  I appreciate your posts, your point of view, and your conviction.  I find agreement that one should not hang around whiners.  My only point is that we can learn that just as they are blind to perspective often we likewise are blind.  We all see our plight but seldom see our gifts and opportunity.  So it is with the man with a blister, the guy with hair loss, the one with Peyronies Disease, the the young man with paralaysis, and the mother with a suffering son.  Often we are no different than the whiner.  We are only on a different level.  We gain nothing if we don't learn that always what seems unsurmountable to one seems like a bright and shinny life to another.  

I prefer to think that I was paralyzed from the neck down and a doctor just walked in the room and said, Hawk, I have great news.  I can restore use of your arms.  I can give you bowel and bladder control.  I can even completely restore use of your legs.  You will also now be able to have an orgasm and to feel touch on your body and on your penis.  You can wrap your arms around a friend, a wife, some small child.  All will be as it was except your penis will not work very well.  You may have to find an understanding women and use a VED or have a prosthesis, or enjoy other forms of sex.  I leap from my bed with profound joy, even though the same condition depresses so many.  Why ?

It is perspective. Mine is that I an thankful for what I have.  I an determined to make each day better.  I vow to live a full life and concentrate on what I can change both physically and emotionally.  I will not fill my head with destructive self-talk that will destroy me.

I have known men that their penis has gone from 8" to 5 1/2 inches that were
destroyed, lost their job, lost their wife from depression not penis size, considered suicide.  I know there are also men that never had a penis as large as 5 1/2 inches that live successful happy married lives.  None of this depression has to do directly with how our penis works or how it is shaped.  It has to do with our attitude about those things.  Of all the problems of Peyronies Disease.  We are in total control of our attitude.  I want Anthony to learn that he can be happy.  I want him to understand her is in charge of fixing his attitude.  I want to empower him to fix the worst part of this disease.  With that fixed he will even be able to fix some of the physical problems that trouble him so much.

The message is that we clearly understand Anthony, whether our problem is exactly like his or a bit different.  And we understand the principle that applies in all cases.  We have tried to share that understanding.

That is compassion.

PS: Sorry for the long post.  Posts should be shorter.  Few like to wade through such $%^$^.

[George999]

I think one of the great values of this forum lies in the fact that people like Tim can be very frank and express it the way they see it.  I find it no less valuable that people like Ninja can likewise express their views on the subject and openly question Tim's comments.  There are actually two conflicting issues here.  First of all, people who are suffering need to be treated with compassion and understanding.  I understand the importance of that.  But secondly, what we WANT to hear is not always what we NEED to hear.  There are times when our perceptions need to be challenged and that process can come across as being cruel and uncaring.  But affirming rather than challenging someones depression can be even more cruel and uncaring.  We ALL, including Tim, wish the very best for Antony and pray that he will find relief from his sufferings.  Each of us are doing our very best to be supportive of him in his time of need.  But in doing so, at times we will risk being misunderstood.  But that is a risk that is hard to avoid without being superficial and shallow.

In times when we are feeling depressed we need to seek out appropriate medical intervention, try to make sure we are getting a good diet and plenty of healthy exercise, and seek spiritual counsel from trusted advisers.   Medical intervention is usually a short term stop-gap measure.  Diet and exercise are more long term and are usually neglected when we are depressed which incites a sort of vicious cycle wherein that neglect results in ever deepening depression.  The spiritual aspect is an even more long term factor since it guides our whole world view and determines whether we will live in hope or despair.  If we are hoping in the wrong things we will ALWAYS be disappointed and end up in despair.  If we are hoping in the right thing we will have hope through our darkest hours.  That constitutes a very powerful equation when it comes to dealing with things like Peyronies and ED.

- George  

[Liam]

Tim and Ninja seem to balance out.  I understand both points of view.

Nobody here wants bad things for its members.  As Hawk pointed out, the psychological aspects are the biggest threat.  If we attack the physical manifestations of Peyronies Disease while ignoring the psychological manifestations (which are often physical as well), we will endure needless suffering.

Tim has been a great member for a long time with great contributions.

Hawk, sage advice.

George, always guiding us to wholeness (body, spirit and mind)

I am happy Ninja has come along with his compassion and humor (I may have met my match).

This is a GREAT FORUM!!!

Antony,  can you see how many people, in their own way, are pullin for you?

[Tim468]

Empathy is not the same as feeling sorry for someone, or pitying them. Also, empathy is not the same as feeling the same as someone. None of us can feel what someone else feels. It is precisely that fact, though, that isolates so many of us.

I may imagine, well NinjaGaidin isn't as experienced as me, so he can't understand me, or Hawk didn't go to the same school as me, so he can't tell me anything about me, or Liam can't know me for he comes from a different state.. until the only person who can know Tim is Tim... And so I isolate myself by seeing the differences, instead of the commonalities. It is when I start to see how we suffer the same way that I start to end my isolation, and to break free of the ties that bind me. It is when I see how we suffer in the same ways, that I finally end my own isolation.

It is by empathy that I am freed of my own pain. And empathy is the act of feeling with others; to feel their pain (sure - it brings to mind Bill Clinton saying that - but why do you think he was elected twice?).

It is by feeling my connections to others that I end my isolation, and that is where my healing starts - not in the office of a urologist who has not enough time or inclination to help me.

Now, that is my story. But my empathy is not endless, and it is true that I have short patience for those who refuse to stop wallowing in their misery. I need to work on that sense of impatience.

But I also grow angry when my own pain or the pain of others is minimized as if it is less important. As if a man of 50 becoming impotent and unable to please his wife is "less terrible" than a man of 20 losing his erection quality. I don't either need or want my own suffering to be graded and found to be not so bad as that of another. And I do see a lack of empathy coming through to me (usually) when others cry "Woe is me! My story is the saddest!!"

I don't need to believe that any story is the saddest - it all breaks my heart, all of it. I get angry at the laggard and lazy response of the urologic community in failing to help those of us with this disease, but I feel sad for all the men who go through this - and there are so many of them!

Finally, I do not respond well when I hear the words "It (or she)(or he) made me feel this way!!" Nothing makes us feel any way. We chose to respond the way we chose to respond. we can get angry at something or we can chose to act differently. I will repeat the story I recently heard that affected me so much:

Marshall Rosenberg was counseling a woman who suffered in the Rwanda genocide. She had cowered in her kitchen in a cabinet and listened as her three young sons, her sister, and husband were murdered in the house. When he spoke to her and asked her if she was mad, she replied, "No - I can't say that I am angry. I want to understand how someone could do this to another human being, and to find ways to prevent it from happening ever again."

Marshall commented on this to us - how can any of us say "She made me mad!"? If a woman can respond by saying she is not angry when her family was murdered, how can I say "Jim at work made me mad"?

Nobody can make us mad - we make choices and live by them. I believe that we have more choice in how we feel than we know. And so I wanted to share that too - that I hope those who feel great anger or pain can come to understand that they are free of that cage already. I am not talking about assuming sainthood - I am not denying pain. But when we say "Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional", we mean it.

So no, I am not perfect. I do not claim sainthood, or anything close to it. But I hope that by learning to connect to the pain of others, and by listening to those who have walked down a similar path before, those new to this disease can learn that the burden need not beat them down. That they are not alone. And they are not worse or better than anyone else - they are simply people trying to handle the pain of being alive like all the rest of us.

Not just pain, but recovery, is our birthright. With luck and the will of a power greater than us, we will get there.

Tim

[Hitman]

I dunno, I do pretty well in isolation. I have a ''no quit'' attitude, and am I always optimistic. I guess my emotional side isn't very strong or I just manage to dull it down quite a lot.

[Liam]

Good post Tim!

This is something to which we can all aspire.

[ninjagaiden]

Dear friends,

First Hawk, I agree with you. Tim, I agree with you. Liam, I agree with you.
I knew I would start a philosophical fire here  , I'm sorry for that.
It's just that our attitude differs sometimes.

When some people give advice, they either show empathy, or they try to send a shockwave in order to made the other guy react. I know some people who try to build anger in the other guy's head in order to make him dislike him and say "I'm gonna fight, go get f... with your advice".

Funny way, but I saw it work on some people. Really strange, it's like doing the "bad guy" on purpose.

Anyway, my attitude is : show empathy (thanks for the word Tim  , that's what I meant by compassion) and get the other guy's confidence in order to "kick his butt" and make him see there are solutions to his problems.
I never dwell in agreeing all the time, I can't do that, it's not giving help. But on the other hand, I stay away from professional whiners, who never take into account the advice you give them. They just waste my time when they come to complainf for the sake of it...


Hawk, there was no cultural barrier at that point, it's just when Tim said a few things like

I do not need to hear about how much "worse" it is to get it young - that already happened to me - that was my experience

, it's just that it's just a bit inadequate as I said, you don't say, "hey kid I don't need to hear that, I had peyronies at 20", when the kid is talking about being impotent at 25.
That's just 2 different issues, when you compare 2 different situations, the guy in need feels like he's not understood (know what I mean?).

But I understand Tim's daily experience, and his lack of patience as he says is humane, you can't take this when you face kids in real pain. But please compare matters that can be compared...

Ok, no more talk, I raelly respect you guys' POV and experience, but let's be cautious when facing a depressive guy (I had Antony in PM, he's strongly considereing suicide, so I guess I'm not taking this threat lightly. But I'm kicking his ass "big time" as well, no way I'll comfort a guy with such dark thoughts).

It seems our last posts would fit in a 500 pages novel, as I can see...  


Take care,

[Hitman]

I guess I'm not very much into the psychological aspects of things. I dunno I'm not very emotional by nature.

[Hawk]

Hitman, could you trim down the size of your posts a bit?  They are entirely to long!  







I envy a man that can get right to the point.  It would have take me and a few others 500 words to say that.    The first line of my long post was actually "Ninja, I will be brief".  After I wrote a novel I had to delete that line so I would look less like a fool.

[ninjagaiden]

Yes Hitman, like Hawk said:

your posts take way too much room in here!  

I can't avoid writing novels   It's good when somebody stops the flow of blablabla with a good common sense sentence. Phew, I thought we would discuss this point until the end of times...

Enjoy your day guys!

[BertCobb]

Guys and gals,
    I am spending some time with my adult son this weekend going hunting.  My sons are both married with children.  They have all asked about my mental state as they have noticed that I am not like "I used to be".  What is the proper thing to say to my sons about Peyronies Disease?  We do not know all the ramifications of the issue vis-a-vis its genetic pre-disposition, its cause or its treatment.  I do not want it to divide me from my sons.  Perhaps my experience will assist them in their issues with their penii should anything ever happen.  I do not want pity, only understanding.  At their ages and experience, they will understand the issues of intimacy and performance better than in their youth.  What would be appropriate information?  I am using VED and stretching to perserve what is left in the hope of regaining some dimensions.  I am trying to pre-empt the questions that might arise should the grandkids find such apparati.  I depend on your advice and counsel.  Thanks.

[Tim468]

That's a tough one. I think that you answered it yourself when you said "At their ages and experience, they will understand the issues of intimacy and performance better than in their youth."

First, no kid wants to think of their parents as sexual beings (as a professor of mine put it: "Well, there's me, and my brother, so that's twice I know of, but I don't think they would do it more than that!"). It is difficult for them, but not creepy or salacious.

How about saying: "I have developed a fibrotic condition of my penis that affects my erections, and I am sad about that, and determined to make it better if I can. I am doing stuff like taking medications to reverse the disease, and applying mechanical traction to keep things as strretchy as possible, but, yeah, it is upsetting to me and I am not the same as I used to be."

From there it will go well I bet (though you should expect the joking that comes from the anxiety of knowing something frightening).

Interesting that yesterday I was advising a 17 year old to try talking to his Dad. When I talked to my Dad, it was scary as hell, but by the end of the day everyone in my family knew, and it was OK (I was about 20-21).

Tim

[Liam]

I wouldn't say a word about Peyronies Disease.  A general statement about some health problems that are not life threatening (herniated discs, constipation) but have you down should suffice.   The odds are they won't ever have it.  And even if they got it, what good would you telling them do.  It will just make them worry about you and worry that they might get it.    

[Hawk]

   I smile because Liam's response surprised me.  I think I disagree.

I have 2 older sons I have not told but I consider it often even though they have never noticed any behavior changes and have never asked.  If they did I am prepared to tell them and I might anyway.  This is why and how I would do it.

If they got Peyronies Disease what is the chance I would ever know?  For all I know, one of them is suffering from Peyronies Disease as we speak.  How horrified would I be if I found out my son suffered in secret with Peyronies Disease  5 or 10 years and I was a founder and administrator of the only forum and the biggest Peyronies Disease organization in existence?  Well you can guess that answer.  It is extremely unlikely, but they could be on here under some member name and I would never know.  After telling them I think they would feel very free about confiding in me about deeply personal issues which gives me a chance to be a strength and a wise father to them.  Also, there are clear genetic links although probably not real strong ones.  As family members we care about each other and I think we are entitled to have at least some vague background about each other's struggles in life.  

I would / will approach it something like Tim but maybe more vague unless they ask for specifics.  In your case I would say something like:

"I know you have noticed some change in me and I didn't want you to worry or wonder.  I 've developed a fibrotic condition of my penis that affects my erections.  Like many of life's challenges this has been a real mind bender at times but I am trying to deal with the physical and the significant psychological aspects of this thing.  I just thought you were entitled to a straight answer."


At this point it will become clear if they want more information or not and that would be my que to respond to questions, or flow into another topic.

PS: every family is different but if me or my sons told the other that we had some health problems that accounted for behavior changes but they were not life threatening, the next question would be, "well what the the hells up?"

[Old Man]

Bert:

All of the previous posts lend credence to the subject. But, if I had to make the decision facing you now, I would be as frank as possible and just lay all the facts out on the table for discussion. Simply tell them that you have Peyronies Disease. Give them all the facts and information you have available to you about the disease/condition.

Hiding the fact that something is wrong with you from your family can and will cause problems later when they find out from someone outside the family or at least not related to the family. Being up front and honest with your son(s) will make them respect you more for it. I lost my dad when I was 17, in the Navy far from home and lonely, only to get a telegram that he had a major heart attack and did not survive. I missed out on the best part of our lives together since he left home to work in a shipyard in WWII for the war effort.

So, bottom line, just simply let it all hang out, get it out in the open and discuss it. They will have more respect for you than if you tried to hide the situation, etc.

Sincerely, Old Man

[BertCobb]

Thanks, guys.  I think I'll just play it by ear and answer their questions.  People always have a different set of questions.  I think that I respect them too much to burden them but perhaps just knowing that Peyronies Disease exists will help them or someone they know.  I pray they never have it but I am thankful that the Forum exists where they can get support that they will NOT find at the urologist's office.  Who knows who might talk to them if they knew that it was not shameful.  It's just parts like ani and teats.  Our attitude is what makes us survivors.  Who is ashamed to have prostate cancer or breast cancer?  We are not freaks.  We have a damned physical problem and we would not wish it on our worst enemy.  Information is power.  People will hear what they need to hear when they need to know it.  I will let you know how it goes in the hope that it might help others in the same way you have already helped me.  My wife has left it up to me like I knew she would.  Trust is a magnificent thing.

[Liam]

I understand and respect everyone's honesty.  I'm thinking, though, if my dad had told me he had it.  I would have spent the rest of my life checking myself.  Then, if against the odds, I found I got it, what good would the knowledge my dad had it do?  Maybe I could have started a preemptive treatment of vitamin e and colchicine.

My dad died of colorectal cancer at 57.  I started getting checked at 47.  I started asking my doctor about screenings at 37.  This, when caught early, can be treated.  There is also a familial component.  I needed to know.

I can think of no good reason to burden the kids.  I just don't think the information would help them in any way.  If you lie, they will go through their life blissfully ignorant of Peyronies Disease.  What a blessing!  I, also, would not want to be pitied.

It is true a penis is just a "part".  But, it is the part with a man's self identity and self worth.  The only reason you are considering telling them is because of the emotional trauma you are experiencing.

I respect each person's decision.  Each family dynamic is different.   I believe a lie to spare sommeone's feelings is good and unselfish.

[Tim468]

We all have our own ways of understanding our own situation - driven by our personal experience and needs.

I think that, for you Liam, you understand that hearing that might have worried you. To an extent, our children often learn from us and model their behaviors on our own: you might be like your Dad that way, as I am like mine.

So the choice does not come down to which way is "better". It is reasonable to worry about burdening adult children with information - but it is also possible that such information would increase closeness by the act of honesty. I know that learning about health issues in my own family never burdened me with fear that I would get it too.

So it should boil down to the kids. What are they like and what can they handle? If they are perceptive enough to recognize that something is wrong, and open enough to ask about it, it sounds to me like these are adults willing and able to hear about Peyronie's.

Tim

[Hawk]

Liam is right, we are all different.

If My Dad had told me I would have taken from it that: Crap happens in this life.  It may be Peyronies Disease,  diabetes, accidents, rape, or cancer and meet those challanges and go on.  I would have know that my Dad could go on in spite of whatever problems and I could too.  After he was gone, I probably would have looked back and thanked him for the example.  I hope I can teach this.  In fact, I hope when it comes time to die, I can teach my children how to do that as well.  I believe we are here to lead the way down life's path and this is a very important part of the process.

Also, it would have made it occur to me that penises are not indestructible, which never occurred to me for the most part until 3 or 4 years ago.  I can truthfully say that had it occurred to me that I think I would be in a little better situation than I am in right now.

Hawk

[j]

I don't have children so it's easy for me to offer advice.  Speaking only for mysefl - I wouldn't burden a kid with this anxiety. It might or might not happen, and it might be easily fixable by the time it does.  It's one thing to tell a young guy that heart problems run in the family so he should take care of himself; it's another thing to drop this sort of a bomb on him,  especially since he can't do anything about it other than obsess over it daily.

[Hawk]

Not to beat a dead horse, OK, I guess maybe I am, but the main point is not to prevent Peyronies Disease, I would consider telling my sister if she wondered why I was depressed, or why I was not dating, or why I was traveling out of state to a doctor.  BertCobb indicated his flesh and blood were concerned about him.  If we deprive family from being concerned about us, we teach them not to allow us to be concerned about them.  This raises the question of just what is family?  I have never felt a family member did me a favor by hiding information from me about a problem they were facing, and I have had many terminal or life threatening situations in my family as well as a host of emotional issues.

I may be wrong, but I have to wonder if this is not a case of making a virtue out of our own embarrassment.  "I don't want anyone to know, so I will attach lofty reasons for not telling anyone".  There are hundreds of conditions that we would tell our sons about that would not help them prevent such situations but we would tell them if they asked rather than lie to them.  

Here are a few searching questions:

Would we try to hide plantar fasciitis from our family so they did not worry they would get it?  
Would we hide a herniated disc?
Would we  hide arthritis?
Would we hide that we have a family history of childhood diabetes in the family? (They can't prevent it)

I think more is going on here than sparing the other person.  Maybe it is kidding ourselves.

[Liam]

Yes, I agree with you Hawk.  There are certain things I am too embarrassed to talk to my family about and unless there is good reason I probably would not.  Included are:

1) Anything remotely related to functioning of the bowel  

2) Anything related to genitals and/or sexual functioning  

3) Anything related to mental health (they don't know every time I stress about something)  

I'm sure there are more.  BUT, if there were a reason like their safety or their health, I would share all, of course.

Even parents need to keep some things private.  With Peyronies Disease, there are beaucoup reasons not to tell your kids.

I guess I'm from the old school where a man is expected to keep his suffering to himself.  You guys are just too enlightened.

The important thing is for families to love each other.  If thats the reason for whatever the action, things will work out most of the time.  

[Kimo]

For Bert,,,,Don't hesitate telling your sons. I told my son and nephews, brother and brother-in-law's...I'm like Hawk i found out my penis was not indestructible, and i feel we need to educate our male family members so that hopefully they can avoid going through what we have had to endure..

I really feel that talking to the men in my family has made us closer by the act of honesty on my part...I will admit at first i couldn't talk about it to anyone,,but the more i read and learned the easy'er it was to talk about it.

My wifes brother who is a couple of years older than I came down with it about a year ago and i was the first one he called...He got help and now is almost cured...So it paid off to be honest to my family...

Being totally honest and open with your son's , pays off in great dividens,,my son and I can talk about anything at any time and we have a great relationship....

This is just my 2 cents worth.......Kimo