Traction Devices and Tension

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Hawk

I have a X4labs traction device.  Few of us have more than one device so we get little in the way of objective comparison.  Just because someone has a specific device and loves or hates it does little to help compare devices.  I prefer the idea of the x4 labs because at the time it was the only device that came with both the traditional loop retainer and the optional "comfort strap" retainer.  I strongly recommend a unit with both.  A rod traction device is at best uncomfortable and having the option to choose the retainer that feels most comfortable is critical.  It is also nice to switch from one to the other from time to time to extend wear time and comfort.

Bottom line is that all the rod type device have variations only it minor points or in quality of materials, or in customer support and price.  I am not saying these are not significant issues, only that the principal is the same.  I am very satisfied with the 4X Labs deluxe extender.  In general I think traction is superior to a VED IF you are in a position to put up with the nuisance and wear the thing 5 or more hours per day.

An alternative design on traction is the Phallosan.  It attaches to the glans with a vacuum type cup/condom and the traction is provided by an elastic strap attached to your leg or above the waist.  Phallosan claims to provide less traction but for longer more comfortable periods.  The problem is that they do not respond to any inquires and I think you have to buy directly from Phalosan.  They seem very unresponsive from what I have heard.

Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

newguy

Hawk - From what I understand the maximum tension of the X4labs traction device is greater than most others on the market (1800g+). Do you have any thoughts as to the safety of using high tension where peyronie's is present? Where a curve is present one side of the penis is shorter, so do you feel that applying that level of tension would be similar to someone without peyronie's using much more tension? This has been something I've been thinking about, because during traction use, I can feel that the shorter side is bearing the weight and worry that consequently I might be overdoing it without realising.

Hawk

Quote from: newguy on August 15, 2012, 11:38:24 PM
From what I understand the maximum tension of the X4labs traction device is greater than most others on the market (1800g+). Do you have any thoughts as to the safety of using high tension where peyronie's is present? Where a curve is present one side of the penis is shorter, so do you feel that applying that level of tension would be similar to someone without peyronie's using much more tension? This has been something I've been thinking about, because during traction use, I can feel that the shorter side is bearing the weight and worry that consequently I might be overdoing it without realising.

Excellent question Newguy and I don't know the answer for certain.  While traction has some disadvantages, I have always maintained that logic dictates that traction has a few advantages over a VED.  One is that stretch is applied over a much longer period and the other is that the stretch is always directed to the shortest side of the penis and arguably specifically to the scared area.  That being said, logic would seem to indicate 1800 G of pull on a straight penis would translate to a far greater focus of tension on a curved penis where only the tissue on the short side bears the tension.  The x4Labs deluxe extender comes stock with 1500 G tension.  According to my measurement that is about 500, 1000, 1500g progressively at each of the 3 tension marks on the rods.  They also sell 2100G tension springs which I am ordering as we speak.  They are $15 on sale for $9.95.

I have just started back with the x4Labs extender after a LONG interruption imposed by life.  I find the full 1500G very comfortable on my penis.  The only discomfort is the retention strap and I try various things to help with that.  None of them are completely satisfactory however, but I manage to wear the unit up to 7 hours a day on some days.  At this point however I essentially have no curve so the tension is fairly evenly distributed.  My major issue is loss of size (over 1 1/2 inches in length) and a large dent on the underside at the base.  The dent is not a big concern since it causes no buckling.

The following may be difficult to follow if you have no experience with a traction unit.  My final thoughts are nothing but a private conclusion with little evidence but here it is:  I think that a user has to start with low tension and work up assessing the discomfort during and after the traction is removed.  If there is NO discomfort to the underlying tissue the next morning then I think it is safe to slightly increase the tension.  After a week increase again.  As a precaution, I always start my session with a low tension then gradually work up to the tension I will use that day.  

BEWARE OF THE THIRD TENSION MARK ON THE RODS: When you get to the point that you are beyond the 2nd tension mark you run a risk even if the tension is comfortable.  For instance if you sit or squat down more tension is applied.  As the rod telescopes to the 3rd mark the springs are bottomed out and it would be possible to exert untold tension on your penis.  I think this sudden tug at levels far beyond the spring rating has the potential to be the biggest risk.  That is why I op for stronger springs set to the first or second mark.  It allows for more movement without bottoming the springs out and exerting a sudden straight-rod tug that could do damage.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

skunkworks

My fastsize extender pulled a lot harder than the tension used in those studies. Wasn't it 1200grams? Cannot remember off thetop of my head, but my fastsize was pulling 1800 at least. Changed the springs to weaker ones.
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

Hawk

Even with 2100G springs, that means it takes 2100 G of force to push the telescoping rod to the bottomed-out position at the third mark.  If you adjust the tension knob so (which alters the rod length) so the telescoping rod only telescopes to the first mark then that is only 700G of tension so I see no reason anyone would have to get weaker springs.  Just adjust the tension down with the tension knob or use shorter rods. Am I missing something ???

Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

skunkworks

It took more than 1500g of force to compress the springs at all. ie they did not move one little bit until it was past 1500g of force.

It would be theoretically possible to get it to the right tension anyway, but the margin for error would be miniscule, and even tiny movements would increase or decrease the tension by a lot.
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

Hawk

Quote from: skunkworks on August 22, 2012, 03:20:27 AM
It took more than 1500g of force to compress the springs at all. ie they did not move one little bit until it was past 1500g of force.

Skunkworks, I agree that is crazy.

The X4 Labs device has 1500G tension springs on their Starter model and on their Deluxe model.  It takes 1500G of force to TOTALLY compress the springs.  This works out to 500G for each of the 3 marks on the telescoping rod.  I tested it with weights and tested it again with a fairly sensitive electronic food scale.

Their Gold model has 1800G springs and their Premium Gold has 2100G springs.

I think it is best to have 2100G springs that exert the full 1400G of force at the second line.  That gives you one more line as a cushion to telescope with your body movement before it bottoms out.  It is important to keep the telescoping rods lubricated so they telescope freely and do not bind or catch.

PS: For those in the U.S. every 454G equal 1lb. of traction so 1500G is about 3.3 lbs of traction.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

skunkworks

All that aside, the biggest problem with traction devices is how they attach to the head of the penis. Solve that problem and I think many more would see great improvement with theses devices.

The noose grips the best but you have to constantly monitor to make sure it is not completely cutting off circulation. Also those with smaller glans(in relation to shaft girth) might have a bit of trouble getting any grip at all.

The 'comfort' band is anything.

Vacuum head I personally think is the most dangerous as you cannot monitor the state of the glans.

I wonder if some kind of single use adhesive tape type solution would be best.
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

newguy

skunkworks - I agree that how the devices attach is the main drawback. I have both types of device (vacuum and noose) that way with any minor surface injury or soreness I can alternate and not have extended periods away from traction (since one attaches under the head, and one on the head of the penis). Your point about the vacuum devices is valid, though I would never wear any unit all day or for many hours without removing it now and again, so I've never experienced major problems along those lines. I've read reports from people using the ADS (all day stretch) stretch units where they say they sleep wearing the contraptions. That certainly sounds very risky to me.

Perhaps if there what seemed like a perfect solution that didn't ever impact circulation and offered high tension it would result in people overdoing it anyway. I've read on penis enlargement forums where men (without any previous injury or condition) manage to overdo it and end up resulting in various problems. At least with devices that aren't perfect we're forced to remove them fairly often and closely monitor matters. Better than being blasé about it I guess?

Hawk

I actually use the noose and comfort strap offered on the X4 labs extender.  I alternate between those 2 attachment systems for the same reason.  They impact slightly different areas of the penis.  That said, I far prefer the comfort strap and use it the most.  I would also like a vacuum attachment because it seems to me it would be the most comfortable.

I DO go to sleep every night with my traction unit on at maximum (1500G of tension).  Even though I am a very sound sleeper that can fall to sleep within minutes of going to bed, I naturally wake up almost exactly one hour after I go to sleep. I wake just enough to remove the unit and lay it on a table next to the bed and glance at the clock as I do. I have only never slept 80 or 90 minutes once or twice.  I also never rolled off of my back when I had the unit on.  Clearly it is firmly in my subconscious and any discomfort that normally develops after an hours wear wakes me up.  

To me this is a free hour of wear since I find activity so restricted during the day.  Some days I do wear it 8 hours but that is rare since I have a life and find sitting, bending, or stooping VERY difficult if I have anything on more than a robe.  I can cut the grass with a walk behind mower or do almost anything that requires standing or walking with little trouble however.

These units would be great if you lived in a nudest coloney.  I wonder if they would violate the rules?  ::)
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

newguy

Hawk - I'm a sound sleeper, so I think I'd probably sleep through whatever was going on. Then again there's always an alarm I suppose :). I definitely agree with your points with regard to wearing it during the day. It can be annoying to wear and go about day to day tasks. Also, there can be privacy issues too, so yeah the nudist colony angle could be useful haha. I've managed to fit in 300+ hours in total, but some of that was at pretty low tension. I'm trying to have a methodical approach.

I saw another positive traction study the other day: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22900621







skunkworks

Quote from: newguy on August 23, 2012, 09:26:59 AMPerhaps if there what seemed like a perfect solution that didn't ever impact circulation and offered high tension it would result in people overdoing it anyway. I've read on penis enlargement forums where men (without any previous injury or condition) manage to overdo it and end up resulting in various problems. At least with devices that aren't perfect we're forced to remove them fairly often and closely monitor matters. Better than being blasé about it I guess?

That is true, maybe the discomfort is effectively (if unintentionally) a safety measure.

Still, am going to try other solutions. Have got some strong medical tape and will see if I can get anywhere with it. I'm thinking something that holds the noose in place at the base of the glans, but will allow it to be much more loose. Will leave space so I can still go to toilet, as retaping would be a bitch.
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

Hawk

This thread is probably drifted far off topic but I got my 2100G springs from X4 Labs on Thurs (ordered on Monday) which is pretty good coming from Canada.  I like this company's fast discrete shipping and their hybrid attachment system.  I am however glad I checked spring tension and did not just assume.  I STRONGLY RECOMMEND INDEPENDENTLY VERIFYING TENSION ON ANY TRACTION DEVICE.

The stock 1500G springs (after some 2 months of use) checked out:
500G at line 1
1000G at line 2
1500G at line 3 (fill compression)

The 2100G springs however check out at:
1700G at line 1
2300G at line 2
over 3700G before they bottom out (they bottom out a bit before the 3rd line due to the spring being a little thicker than the stock spring)

Needless to say I am very glad I checked these or I could have returned the unit to the company with my penis still strapped to it.  I will wear this compressed to the first line.  That gives me plenty of traction and still gives me some play when I move without totally bottoming out.

On the topic of comfort or slippage.  I have tried two approaches.  One is to place a wet-one or wet wipe between the strap or noose and your skin  The other is to use the gauze type wrap that sticks to itself.  The second choice totally eliminates any slippage but removal of the gauze from your skin has got to be a somewhat careful process.  I am still experimenting.

PS: I check tension by two methods. 1. Pressing the unit down onto a food scale and reading the weight at each mark.  (The scale will have to have a capacity of at least 3-8 lbs which is heavier than most food scales). 2. Placing known weight on the traction unit and depressing it down until it bottoms-out, next let up to see which mark the telescoping rod rebounds to.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

skunkworks

Quote from: Hawk on August 24, 2012, 03:24:59 PMI STRONGLY RECOMMEND INDEPENDENTLY VERIFYING TENSION ON ANY TRACTION DEVICE.

Yep I don't think this is said enough (if ever). How I did it was just to push down on it on a kitchen scale.


QuoteOn the topic of comfort or slippage.  I have tried two approaches.  One is to place a wet-one or wet wipe between the strap or noose and your skin  The other is to use the gauze type wrap that sticks to itself.  The second choice totally eliminates any slippage but removal of the gauze from your skin has got to be a somewhat careful process.  I am still experimenting.

I will give those a shot. How do you use the gauze? is it a double sided tape type thing?
This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

Hawk

 This stuff is sold as "sticks to itself not skin". One brand is Gauze Tape ® Self-Sticking Bandage Gauze.  Every drug store now sells some version of this stuff.  I think it started as vet wrap because it is great for animals with hair etc.

I just cut a small strip that will wrap one and a half times around my penis (snug).  I then put on the foam sleeve and apply the comfort strap as normal.  There is no slippage.  This stuff has a coarse waxy feel and is not soft like normal gauze.  Once it is under constriction for a while it forms pretty closely to your skin and takes some patience to remove.  Don't just try to pull it off.  It must be gently unwrapped.  I have not used it several times in one day and I suspect it could cause irritation due to its rough texture and close molding to the skin but I have had no problems with a couple applications per day.  I have not tried it with a noose attachment.

As a footnote, I am circumcised and I suspect that hugely effects traction issues and solutions.  This product certainly resolves any issue of slipping however.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

skunkworks

This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

newguy

3M microfoam surgical tape is used to avoid fluid buildup with some vacuum based units, but is suitable for other uses too. It doesn't hurt when I pull it off my skin.

Hawk

Quote from: skunkworks on September 10, 2012, 01:32:47 AM
Like this kind of stuff? - 5cm Width Stretch Injuries Self-adhering Waterproof Bandage on eBay!

That looks like the stuff except I never used the waterproof type but more like the other rolls on that page.

_______________
I want to add that with the increased tension I am now sing the ridges on the tail of the comfort strap was sometimes backing up through the yoke so the strap was not cinched as tight.  This would lead to the glans slipping under the strap.  I tried a small paper clamp on the tails to clip them together but it was not ideal.  Now I use a rubber band and it resolved the issue because it bends the tails of the strap outward so the ridges will not slip back through the slots in the yoke.

I find it also keeps the tail ends of the strap more conveniently tucked away.

It is very simple but not easy to explain.

here is a picture
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums