ARCHIVE: Verapamil - Injections & Topical Applications including Iontophoresis

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vhguy

Newbie here.  Thank you for this forum - it has been a godsend.

I was diagnosed with Peyronies around the first of the year.  Fortunately, I had sought help from my urologist.  He suggested the Verapamil injections (biweekly) and Vitamin E (oral).  

My peyronies resulted in an "S" shaped erection.  It was horribly painful.  By the third injection, the pain had pretty much disappeared.  After 13 injections, I now have about 90% improvement - i.e. I have an almost straight erection and absolutely no pain.  The situation is seemingly improving even three weeks after my last injection.  Has my erection returned to normal?  No.  It is noticeably smaller (at least to me), and I can feel the knobby hardness of the plaque.  But - I am able to enjoy sex again.    

LWillisjr

Quote from: vhguy on September 27, 2009, 04:21:37 PM
Newbie here.  Thank you for this forum - it has been a godsend.
After 13 injections, I now have about 90% improvement

vhguy,
Thank you for posting!  You are one of the few that have stated that the VI's helped. But any improvement story is a good one.

Les
Developed peyronies 2007 - 70 degree dorsal curve
Traction/MEDs/Injections/Surgery 2008 16 years Peyronies free now
My History

UK

I have reattached the study on topical verapamil done in Texas that showed promising results.
Whilst very few on this board have posted any positive results an equal number have posted negative. This forum itself is not conclusive.
The question I have is are we questioning the integrity of the doctors that performed the study? They are based in Texas with Peyronies Disease labs so were they paid to prepare a false study?

Levine and Co, knock TV as they refer to a study done on patients that had tunica removed and tested where patients 24 hours prior to the operation applied TV. Could it be that the study was floored in one of 2 ways? It was not the same transdermal product used in the Texas study or not enough time was allowed to build up concentration as is also claimed by Peyronies Disease Labs? What is rarely mentioned is that Verapamil was found in the urine of patients, so was this contamination external or did TV penetrate into the urethra, and if that far why not into the tunica given time?
As there has been no follow up by either Peyronies Disease Labs or the medical community since, it is accepted in the respected circles that this is a waste of time based on one study.

The reason I raise this is that I want to add this to my traction and want to be sure I am not wasting my time and money, but there are unanswered questions. Other transdermal gels work so why not TV? Testim by auxilium for instance delivering testerone
What I am not asking here is whether verapamil itself works on plaque but whether the transdermal application method works.

Help me out here. Thoughts?


newguy

You pose some interesting questions. As research into peyronie's disease is very limited, I do believe that it's possible for commercial interests to manipulate the market somewhat. The support for the VED from some prominent urologists has diminshed without good reason. Of course this study may be an example of one that shouldn't be taken at face value, so who knows? I personally have no view of topical verapmail, but am interestsed to see what others think.  

ComeBacKid

UK,

First I'd tell you to read the report done by J and I.  I used both the "special" kind of TV and regular pharmacy made TV, neither worked.   Based on my information I was told a different story everytime I called to Texas.  Doctors could have easily been paid off, we simply don't know.  We do know t here was a lawsuit, and some "shadey," activity, seems like a shadey group to begin with.

I would say that there is correlation that both verapamil injections and topical verapamil both show poor results, leads me to believe verapamil doesnt work at all...

The second question I'd ask is did the "patented delivery syste" ever get complete FDA approval, and if so why not? See my quote from the report:

FDA Trials

When I first spoke to Dallas Dryden in April after first purchasing the product he told me PDLabs was involved in phase 2 trials for FDA approval.  After speaking to Brad on the phone just a few weeks ago he informed me that PDLabs is still trying to raise the $20 million dollars needed to begin phase 2 FDA trials.  There is definitely some conflict here with their stories.

The NIH maintains a website, www.clinicaltrials.gov to provide the public with information about clinical trials for FDA approval.  Section 113 of the FDA Modernization Act requires companies to submit information to clinicaltrials.gov for trials involving serious or life-threatening conditions.  A study can be exempted from this requirement if making it public would discourage patients from enrolling, which could be the case for peyronies disease.  Studies also must be registered with clinicaltrials.gov in order to be accepted for publication in medical journals.  There is no evidence, either on the NIH site or in a journal, that such a study was carried out or is in progress.  Is PDLabs really doing FDA trials?  No one can seem to find this information, it is left unknown.


You may want to look this up and see if they have moved along, surely they would with such a great product?

As someone else pointed out there website hasn't been updated in years...

From the tons of people I talked to for my report I can remember only 1 that claimed TV helped him and for some reason he himself seemed very "questionable."  We did a poll on TV, I don't see it under member polls, you might PM hawk and ask him where it is and if he could place it for all to view, the results were poor at best.  I think TV is something that was hot for awhile, but hasn't really been talked about for years cause so many people said it didn't work.

I welcome any member who used it and saw results to post right here on this thread...

Comebackid

Brewpunk

New guy here, been suffering from this disease for the past 6 months now. It started off with a really bad hourglass shape & constant pain. Went to the er at first & they misdiagnosed it as a contusion & gave me Ibuprofen. Finally got a urologist appointment 2 months ago & found out it was Peyronie's. All they told me was to take a bunch of vitamin E & come come back in February. After doing some research I started all kinds of other things, have a huge vitamin & supplement regime, been trying the water cure, eliminating processed foods, warm baths, even tried spiritual healing (don't laugh). My Dr. really isn't much help. He pretty much wants to wait six months, if it doesn't get better on it's own then perform surgery (which one he has in mind, I have no idea). In his opinion, nothing else has been proven, so nothing else works & vitamin E might help. Had to talk him into prescribing me Pentox (has helped somewhat). I recently checked out the Peyronies Disease Labs website for topical Verapamil & it sounds like the greatest thing on the planet. Called the doc about getting a script for this & I can only get this direct from the company, so my insurance won't cover it if I can't get it at a pharmacy. One month's supply is $270!!!! This will hurt me financially, but at this point I'm willing to try anything. I'd have to make a lot of sacrifices in order to try this. Question is, should I do it?  

Brewpunk

Thanks for the advice Old Man. After doing more research it's sounding more & more like the topical Verapamil treatments are bogus & the injectable Verapamil doesn't sound promising enough to bother going through all that. The VED's sound pretty good though. Gonna have to bug my Uro about trying that. He's going to get sick of me (if he isn't already).  

vhguy

Brewpunk - A couple of observations from a newbie - I'm one who found success with the Verapamil injections.  First - I would get a second opinion from another urologist.  My urologist was very straightforward with me concerning ALL the options.  Yours sounds rather dismissive of the problem.  Second - I also developed Peyronies Disease relatively recently - maybe a reason the VI worked for me.  I found the Vitamin E with the injections helped a little - as did just backing off from voluntary erections (i.e. no sex for a while).  

Since I've stopped the injections (after 13) - I continue to improve.  I don't use VEDs but I have found a little home "remedy" that seems to help with the improvement...I have a handheld shower nozzle that emits a nice soft spray - a nice steady spray strategically pointed to the penis (with a warm to slightly hot water) causes a natural erection.  This "hydrotherapy" is certainly enjoyable and I continue to notice improvement in straightness and girth.  The hardness of the plaque is noticeably decreasing.  

I would at least try the injections.

LWillisjr

vhguy,
Thanks for posting this. It is good to know that some do find relief through verapamil injections. I also tend toward trying them. I know there are a few experts on the forum here that I have high regard for but they had some bad side effects from the injections and do not recommend them. I had the injections and while I did not see improvement, I did not suffer any side effects. So I feel they are still an option for those who detect their Peyronies Disease early and are seeking various approaches to therapy. Clearly if the VI's don't help, or cause problems then they should be stopped.

It is difficult to recommend any specific approach as there are many different factors to each person's case (plaque size, degree of curvature, length of time of active phase, length of time of stable phase, etc. etc. etc.)
Developed peyronies 2007 - 70 degree dorsal curve
Traction/MEDs/Injections/Surgery 2008 16 years Peyronies free now
My History

Brewpunk

Thanks vhguy, yea my doc is very dismissive. I get little to no help from the guy. When you talk about backing off from voluntary erections for a while, I'm curious as to how long would you recommend backing off. My dr. said "use it or lose it." (his exact phase) when I asked him whether I should continue using it or leave it alone for a while. I called him back a few days later & asked him how often I should use it. His response was in a nutshell: "let the pain be your guide.", but at the same time he's also telling me to work through the pain. This has me very confused, though I do try to do something with it everyday to give it some exercise. Maybe this is the wrong approach, I dunno? I have noticed some improvements. The indentation is much less extreme & I've gone from painful, to sore, to a slight ache. Past couple of nights it was sore again. I feel like I'm getting much closer to normal again, but not quite there yet. Maybe backing off for a while is the key to pushing it to the next level of improvement.  

LWillisjr

Quote from: Brewpunk on October 29, 2009, 08:25:14 PM
I have noticed some improvements. The indentation is much less extreme & I've gone from painful, to sore, to a slight ache. Past couple of nights it was sore again. I feel like I'm getting much closer to normal again, but not quite there yet. Maybe backing off for a while is the key to pushing it to the next level of improvement.
I don't think the issue is about "pushing yourself through the pain". You need to ask yourself if you think this will bo way on its own. I don't know of anyone on this forum where their Peyronies Disease just went away. Do you only have pain, or do you have curvature associated with it? Pain could be a temporary inflammation. If you definitely have plaque and or curvature, then you need to try one of the many therapieds discussed on this site. You will find a lot of information about topical druges, oral meds, traction, VEDs, injections, and eventually... surgery. We encourage you to ask questions as you will find a lot of advice, opinions, and support here.

Les
Developed peyronies 2007 - 70 degree dorsal curve
Traction/MEDs/Injections/Surgery 2008 16 years Peyronies free now
My History

Brewpunk

Quote from: lwillisjr on October 29, 2009, 09:33:21 PM

I don't think the issue is about "pushing yourself through the pain". You need to ask yourself if you think this will bo way on its own. I don't know of anyone on this forum where their Peyronies Disease just went away. Do you only have pain, or do you have curvature associated with it? Pain could be a temporary inflammation. If you definitely have plaque and or curvature, then you need to try one of the many therapieds discussed on this site. You will find a lot of information about topical druges, oral meds, traction, VEDs, injections, and eventually... surgery. We encourage you to ask questions as you will find a lot of advice, opinions, and support here.

Les

I have no curvature, more of an hourglass indentation (which has been improving) & some plaque on the right hand side. Been on the Pentox for 2 months now & taking a ton of supplements. I also just started oxygen therapy (drinking food grade hydrogen peroxide) about a week ago.
While I'm able to achieve intercourse just fine, I experience the ache or pain before (while the indentation is filling up) & just after. Not quite sure if it'll go away on it's own, but I sure hope so. I will say it's better then it was 6 months ago when it first started.  

vhguy

Hi Brew -

My uro didn't give me guidelines for "backing off" sex - just said reduce.  I was concerned about the "use it or lose it" and here's what my experience was...

My injections did away with 80% of the pain very quickly.  I probably masturbated and had sex maybe three times a week.  My morning erections became occassional.  Around about my fourth or fifth injection - I actually had a difficult time getting an erection.  So - I just let it alone - masturbated maybe once every couple of weeks - never very satisfying and barely erect.  I had seen some "watch it wither" threads here and had almost resigned myself to it.  Then, around the 11th injection - I started noticing pretty strong morning erections.  I think that helped psychologically, too.  I did a total of 13 injections - and I'm very happy now.  Looking back - my penis seems to have gone through a "disfigurement" stage, then a "hardening" stage (while I was getting treatment), and now it seems to be getting back to a stable normal (although that may never be what "normal" used to be).  My injections - btw - were two to three weeks apart.

My uro said (I know this doesn't agree with this forum) that it would get better and eventually go away.  Again - I think a major factor is because I caught mine within a year or so of my symptoms starting.  

MUSICMAN

As I know Dr. Levine uses Verapamil injections as a treatment before using surgery. Can anyone tell us if Verapamil was approved by the FDA for Peyronies treatment and if so in what year approx? Is it used in some other form of treatment?   Musicman