My encounter with Peyronies - a story of hope - Acupuncture

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Peter B

Hi. My name is Peter. My story will be familiar. About a year ago I noticed a lump I'm my penis. I ignored it until about two months ago when things started rapidly deteriorating. My penis developed a curve upwards first. Not too alarming. And then started feeling shorter during lovemaking with my wife. Then things got ugly. My glans remained soft during erections, the bend became worst and started twisting to the right. I went to see my GP. You have a disease he said. No real cure. Start taking vitamin E and when it gets painful I will refer you to a urologist. I googled bending penis and got the name. Peyronies. So I did what I always do when my GP is confused. I went to see an acupuncturist. He laughed and said thats what they will all tell you. That was a week ago. 6 one hour sessions later the twist is gone. The curve has lessened and I swear the length is returning. Best of all, the lump that became a ridge is getting smaller. It is early days but the results are startling. I will keep you updated but things are seeming to be improving. My acupuncturist was a qualified doctor before he embarked on this form of medicine and is a member of an international body. He is passionate about his profession and I am sure will share his knowledge on treating this ailment. Feel free to email me. I have felt the despair. I am now feeling the hope!

Luciano

That does sound very encouraging.. is it known acupuncture points? or has he his own method?
Yes please, keep us updated!

Luc

cowboyfood

Currently:  L-Arginine (2g), Vit D3)

james1947

Yes, it is very interesting.
Maybe the cure is not from VI, Xiaflex or Xiaflex placebo, maybe the cure is perforating the plaque in the correct way!?

I hope Peter B will answer to Luciano questions. Here in the Far East have many acupuncture specialists, I may give it a trial.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

cowboyfood

FWIW,

I encourage all guests and members to be skeptical of posts like the one made by "Peter B."  

The skepticism should not be necessarily directed at the treatment discussed in the post, but at the procedural aspects of the post.

Here, "Peter B" registers and shortly makes only one post wherein he tells a story of a treatment that worked for him and asks that others "feel free to email him."  

The timing of the registration in regard to their only post in addition to a solicitation to email the poster should be red flags to anyone reading it.

Over the three plus years I have been active on this forum, I've read many posts like this one.  Posters like this never divulge any objective information, including even the name of the person or provider that supposedly provided treatment.  IMO, this post has the markings that the poster has not disclosed his/her true ulterior motives . . . perhaps gaining money in consideration for essentially worthless advice/information?

This forum is full of wonderful helpful advice that is freely and sincerely divulged and criticized.  IMO, conservative treatments such as the VED and Pentox should be used to mitigate, improve or eliminate any deformities (see hundreds and hundreds of posts).  

Alternatively, more aggressive treatment may be considered such as injections, surgery or implant (see hundreds and hundreds of posts).

Also, IMO, guests and members should read posts by George999 and others which discuss ways to treat possibly (and likely) underlying causes for the condition.

CF

Currently:  L-Arginine (2g), Vit D3)

james1947

cowboyfood

You are right to be skeptic regarding this post based on past experience on the forum, but I think we need to give a chance for a few days and see if he will post additional information regarding his treatment.

I see he was active yesterday so let's see.
He stated
QuoteFeel free to email me
but I don't find an email address.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Luciano

Well considering he didnt post a mail adress, I give him the benefit of the doubt.
I he answers, telling about his doc, how his doc treats it , giving details, then I will consider showing the post to an acupunturist i will find locally, and ask him if he thinks its ok for me and if he can reproduce the treatment.
But as long as I dont have any details, i'm not moving a finger.

Anyway thanks for the warning cowboyfood.

Luc

ThisWontWork

I think that we shouldn´t underestimate an acupuncture Treatment. I have an old friend living in Bangkok/Thailand. There he has made a contact with an old Chinese PHD. The problem is that he (the doc) only speaks Chinese and a very little Thai. My friend speaks English but no Thai so he has been helped by an interpreter who speaks both Thai and English.

I have told my friend about my disorder and as we speak about the Western lack of knowledge regarding peyronies we asked ourselves - maybe the ancient Chinese art of healing could have a solution for this disorder. Well said and done. My friend made an appointment with this doc and he said there might be some possibilities.

1) He did first offer an acupuncture Treatment - the best option. This treatment consist of 10 "nailsession"  with 3 days apart during one month.

2) He also offered a course of natural medicines. A lot of pills during 3 month - including cialis. I will start with these pills next week.

If these pills doesn´t work I will have to take a long vacation in Thailand/Bangkok later on. I can stay with my friend in his apartment. I have a standing invitation to visit him in Bangkok.

Pentox, CoQ-10, L-Arginine, VED, some Chinese herbs

james1947

ThisWontWork

Have a nice stay in Thailand. I lived there for 5 years, wanderfull country and wanderfull people. The most appreciated local doctors are the Chinese with acupuncture and old fashion medications and it works!

If I was living there now, I was taking a visit to an old Chinese doctor to ask his opinion (I speak Thai)

Update us what happening if you will be there.

Regarding Peter B, he was online yesterday as I have written before. Hope he will be online again and answer our questions.

James

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Luciano

Well i do think we have very little knowledge about the benefits of acupuncture..
BUT
I remember, at the very beginning when I was reading everything I could find, I read that only white males were getting Peyronies Disease, no japanese, no chinese, no africans, no indians...
I'm not sure it is true, but if it is, the chinese and the art of acupuncture will not have spent much time on it, as they are not concerned.

Luc

james1947

From my conversation with my uro here in Indonesia I can tell you that Asians have Peyronies, maybe same as we have.
My uro made close to 50 Peyronies surgeries including the semi-rigid implant for many people and my previous uro made more than 30 Peyronies surgery.

My wife proposed me to go to a "healer" (I don't know, maybe something like Jamaican Woodo) and to an acupuncturist that they know what is Peyronies.
I didn't had yet the curage. Maybe I will have in the future?!

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

james1947

Well, the topic was opened by Peter B at June 5, 2012.

He was last active on June 6, 2012 and today we are June 14.
Maybe is just a scam, he didn't give us any details regarding his treatment and he was not active from opening the topic.
Maybe just a scam?

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

swolf

Quote from: Luciano on June 07, 2012, 10:32:44 AM
I remember, at the very beginning when I was reading everything I could find, I read that only white males were getting Peyronies Disease, no japanese, no chinese, no africans, no indians...
I'm not sure it is true, but if it is, the chinese and the art of acupuncture will not have spent much time on it, as they are not concerned.

This misses the point of acupuncture but it is a common misconception. Traditional Chinese medicine focuses more on treating the whole person and less on targeting specific diseases. It focuses on disharmonies in the body and mind, and re-aligning these, with the result that your body is more capable of using it's own inherent healing capacities. It is in this way that TCM (acupuncture, herbs, qigong, dietary recommendations, etc) is extremely flexible and can be used to treat a wide range of conditions. Conditions like Peyronie's tend to be like "knots" in the body -- collections of imbalances and factors that can totally be explained in Western medical terminology, but coalesce into these larger accumulated forces that can also be explained in the metaphorical language of Chinese medicinal thought -- that need to be slowly and consciously undone.

I have had good results with acupuncture and herbs taking the "fire" out of my condition; for one thing, inflammation is no match for TCM... if you have problems with inflammation I think you would see good results fairly quickly. It also helped immensely in the beginning with pain, which isn't really a problem for me anymore. I am without internet at home at the moment so my time online is very limited, but I will try to post more in the near future about how TCM has helped me (I consider all approaches valid and still use light supplementation and am experimenting with very careful VED therapy for a troublesome area). Embarking on any treatment plan for something like Peyronie's requires completely reevaluating your life and health and systematically going through all the processes and choices that make up your life and readjusting them so they flow well together, and for me Chinese medicine has been an excellent framework to use as the basis for that.  

Luciano


swolf

I'm not sure the details of my particular story are actually very relevant, but it was last year that I started developing what I eventually realized was Peyronie's, and late last year that it finally became apparent it was a big problem. I researched online a little bit and got a basic understanding but didn't really know how to proceed with treating it. I ended up applying large amounts of vitamin E which did nothing and in the end made my condition worse. I scheduled an appointment with an acupuncturist I know well and he told me he was familiar with the condition and his mentor in France had successfully treated someone for it, so I started seeing him about it in January 2012. He (and another acupuncturist I've used in another town agrees) said herbs would be the best method of treating it, so I started on his herbal formula (which was directly based on the imbalances in my body he was seeing at the time, which is why the exact formula is not transferable to another patient. Someone else with Peyronie's may well get prescribed something very similar, but the condition--any condition--manifests itself differently in everybody so it wouldn't be exact), which consisted of concentrated herbal powders in packets (about 10 different herbs) which I added to boiling water in the morning and drank half then and half at night.

I continued with the herbs until February when I had a disastrous attempt at using Pentox. The anxiety I experienced after a month on Pentox was one of the worst mental experiences I have ever had and the thought of experiencing that again makes me shudder. My Peyronie's significantly developed further as a result of the mind-bending anxiety induced by Pentox, which ruined my sleeping and bodily functions for several weeks. I am prone to anxiety in general, but what I felt was like smoking bad crack. So Pentox was out of the question, though considering the effects I noticed while on it I would say it would significantly improve my condition if I was able to take it. If Pentox works for you, wonderful! Go with what works. I didn't take the herbs during that but started back up soon after, and that along with Acetyl L-Carnitine and CoQ10 I believe alleviated some of the developments. I have continued with Chinese herbs since then, though they are not cheap (around $21-22 a week) and I have had setbacks where I am not able to take them for a few weeks at a time, and I've also struggled to keep my life in order outside of that, with money and living situation concerns sometimes limiting my ability to effectively live and eat healthily. I sporadically get needle treatments for anxiety at a community acupuncture clinic (that is separate from the herbalists I go to) for $20 a pop, and that works well. Also recently I ordered a one-cylinder Vitality VED and despite going in with what I thought was appropriate caution and correct technique, I unequivocally made my condition worse. I'm still not sure if I overpumped or if my body just doesn't take to it, and I've set it aside for a while but am about to try it again. So it's far from me trying other strategies because the TCM doesn't work, it's more that it is the only one that has consistently alleviated my symptoms with slow gains here and there. It is a slow-moving train that chugs along. Destination unknown but going in the right direction.

This may not be the most convincing account, but it's a very personal thing and I know it works well for me and when it comes down to it, it's just the way I want to live my life. I am interested in qigong and aikido and have absolutely no allegiance to a rich, spicy diet, and I mesh well with "Eastern" philosophy and thought. It's a system I naturally embrace but I'm not overly concerned with convincing others. It is there if you want to try it. TCM is not a wonder cure, it isn't magic. What it is is a tool, a very very old and refined tool, that you can use alongside changing your life to fall in line with more natural, rhythmic ways of living. This is exceedingly hard to do in the modern world and I struggle with it constantly, but it's what you have to do. If you don't stop eating the standard Western diet, if you don't start getting exercise, if you continue to dwell on negative thought patterns, etc: Acupuncture won't seem to work. But it will be because you're trying to row a boat against the current. I feel like once I got rowing in the right direction the water got all turbulent and choppy, but hey, a sense of humor is probably required too, and life will usually make sure you remember that.

I hesitate to say I find Peter's account hard to believe, because it very well could be as he says, but I don't think you will see great results after only a little bit of needle therapy. I think most TCM doctors will agree that herbs are the way to go. So give it a shot.

Luciano

Sounds very interesting and I will certainly give it a try.
Specially that, like hundreds of others, I am sitting here waiting for xiaflex.
So even if it wont work with me, I will at least have the impression of having done something productive.
I am sorry for your bad ved experience. and I think you should always immediately stop a treatment as soon as you feel uncomfortable.
Its like tcm, what works with one, may not work with someone else, at least not the same way.
Luc

swolf

I think you will be surprised how powerful it can be. When I moved recently and switched to getting herbs from a different acupuncturist, she didn't use the concentrated packeted form but instead the actual dried roots/barks/herbs that you have to cook. That process is a little more complicated than the three minutes it takes to prepare the boiling water and packet mixture... you have to soak the herbs for 30 minutes, then cook them for 45 minutes, then strain and cook in new water for another 45 minutes (also adding in an herb that I believe was chrysanthemum for the last 15 minutes - I assume it was more delicate). The tea it produces is STRONG. If you trust supplements or any other oral treatments, it's hardly a stretch to try Chinese herbs. I don't mind the two hours a day commitment but the concentrated powders are probably better for most people.

I've also been trying to change my diet (which was already pretty simple and healthy, though I have my indulgences which sometimes mess me up) to what Chinese medicine suggests. I am still learning about that so I can't offer a lot of info about it, but unfortunately they do suggest a fairly bland diet at least for detoxifying and healing purposes, along with limiting raw foods. I haven't figured out if I can or should completely do without meat, but I am fairly close to vegetarian (I don't think this is really a requirement, though limiting meat to more of an "accent" to meals than the centerpiece probably is). Congee is a great healing food and I have been experimenting with all sorts of variations on it. Again, not the most exciting food, but it can be pretty satisfying when bulked up with vegetables, miso, etc. The hardest thing for me is I spend a lot of time out of the house and finding things to eat on the run can be tough. I'm still working on the diet aspect.

Qigong has also become a vital component for me. It can accomplish a lot of the more gentle effects acupuncture can, like balancing bodily functions and dissolving moods, with the advantage that it is something you can learn and do on your own with no equipment. A huge component is breath, so it is best to do it (when not in a class) in a well-ventilated, comfortable area, or even better yet outside while barefoot. It may sound like a very weak form of self-treatment, or "wishy-washy," for lack of a better term, but it really isn't. You can get through a session of qigong and feel like you've just had a massage (or an enema, hah) or something. It can really be invigorating. I was surprised how actually, concretely more energized it made me after I tried it.  

swolf

One important thing I think should be mentioned if posts like this are common (I haven't been around long enough to know). Do not ever pay money to someone that says they know the correct acupuncture/herbal/whatever cure. In regards to traditional Chinese medicine, there is no set treatment for anything. It's all about observing and treating a particular person's body. There will never be an acupuncture regimen you can write up and package tidily to sell to others -- that is the exact opposite of how TCM works. If you're curious, just go talk to an acupuncturist (I would also research and find a highly recommended one that has more experience than just helping people quit smoking, etc).

Also, needles are not inserted directly into or necessarily anywhere close to the penis. The liver channel, if that is where your problem lies, runs from the midsection all the way down to the big toe with acupuncture points all along that length (there are 365 points in total around the body), and treatments often are centered around the opposite end of your body from the affected area, with an imbalance in one area appearing along with an opposite imbalance in that other part of the body. At one point I had (and I don't know enough about the theory to know if this is a continuous aspect of my Peyronie's or just a momentary problem... I'm thinking somewhat continuous) a "dampness" in the groin and simultaneously really dry skin around my head. I still notice during a Peyronie's flare-up that the skin on my head gets really dry, dandruff suddenly shows up and I have really flaky, dried skin behind and in the ears. But no, no needles in the penis.

james1947

I don't have any doubts that acupuncture and herbal remedies helps some people.

Myself find solution for my Migraine (that I have suffered from the age of 12, now I am 64) drinking a Chinese tea twice a day and now two per week for maintenance.
My kidney stones solution was also Chinese herbal treatment for more than four months, the same herbs didn't dissolve my bladder stones.

My question is why today in China more people are treated with conventional (western) medicine that wit acupuncture and herbal medications?

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

swolf

Quote from: james1947 on June 20, 2012, 08:09:26 PM
My question is why today in China more people are treated with conventional (western) medicine that wit acupuncture and herbal medications?

To my knowledge, most Chinese acupuncturists are also highly trained in Western medicine, and acupuncture is found alongside all other forms of treatment in clinics and hospitals -- it's all integrated and not seen as separate, just useful for different things. But I'm not in and have never been to China so I don't actually know.

As to why western medicine is more popular? If that's true I would guess it is to some extent caused by the continuing westernization of China and maybe the view of some as acupuncture being outmoded and antiquated. Also the rise of illnesses caused by this westernization ("lifestyle diseases," etc), which of course western medicine has an answer for because they're both part of the same system.

james1947

Big part of successfully treated an illness is the ill person believing in the specific treatment.
I see it here where I am living now (Indonesia) and I see it in other Far East counties I lived there.

Even the"Miracle makers" have extremely high success rate.
Some of the other treatments are just astonishing and shocking for me, like internal local pain treated by scratching the skin with a sharp coin (must to be a coin for the treatment success!) until all the skin is like peeled off and can see the red meet.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

swolf

Quote from: james1947 on June 23, 2012, 02:12:20 AMtreated by scratching the skin with a sharp coin (must to be a coin for the treatment success!) until all the skin is like peeled off and can see the red meet.

That was actually next on my list of things to try for Peyronie's if herbs and VED don't work out.

james1947

If you will scratch consistently it may scratch out the plaque.  :) ;D 8)

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

swolf

The situation is already kind of absurd... in one room I'm adding fragile flowers into gently simmering herbs and roots, in another room it's all hacksaws and industrial tubing -- all to save my precious flap of skin! Hopefully sharp coins and red meat don't end up getting added to the mix.