VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices

[ComeBacKid]

Old Man has stated to me you don't need the ionotophoresis, and that the Soma Correct has worked on him without this, and it has worked on others.  I believe him, however remember if you use these devices to be very careful, it takes time to produce results.  The IONO if it does drive the verapamil into the target tissue, and if it does soften the plaques or shrink them, it would seem that this would make the VED exercises even easier. 

I've read online that many doctors and people claim that the VEd can't enlarge the penis, however it seems from legitimate posters here including old man, that men with Peyronies Disease can increase length and girth through the appropriate use of a medical quality VED.

ComeBackid

[bob]

Another topic entirely:
Does anyone out there have insurance through the Blue Cross network? A VED is considered durable medical equipment, and we get some sort of discount if we go 'in network.' Problem is, most of their network are these little mom-and-pop distributors of walkers and crutches. I can imagine calling lots and lots of them and having to explain what a VED is and does.

Timm Medical, which distributes the Osbon esteem, is out of network. I ordered a VED a couple of months ago through Timm Medical because one of the reps on the phone assured me that he would personally handle the order and knew a way to place it through one of my Blue Cross network providers.

That didn't happen. The item now appears as a $455 charge on my Discover bill. I have a $500 deductible for durable medical equipment, so I know I'm not going to get any coverage... but it would have been less costly out of pocket if it had come through the right channels.

The guy from Timm said some time ago that if I don't get this resolved to my satisfaction, they would give me a call tag and I could return it. (Even though I used it once or twice. I would run it through the dishwasher before returning it. By itself.)

Anybody have any input they can share? Calling Blue Cross is useless.

[zigwyth]

Old Man, I thought I would post this question here instead of emailing you personally in case someone else had the same concerns. Regarding  ComeBackid's post(187) in the subject of Verapamil. It was mentioned that the patient needed to have the Iontophoresis treatment performed first before using a VED because more possible plaque damage would result otherwise.Your thoughts on this? Also, how is everything going with the Somma Correct? I'm sure you have seen the post from the illiterate Zeus. Are you in the position to speak with reps about this imposter? Any info is appreciated as I am considering going to my Uro to see if I can get a Medical quality VED prescribed.Thanks

[Mick]

Hopeful:
     Steve answered your question re the protocol.  As to the others,  I am 74 years old, have had Peyronies Disease for 14 years, have never done anything about it til now, and am doing nothing now except the Soma Correct protocol, so that the improvement during the past two months and any to be realized over the next four, has been and will be attributed solely to the Soma Correct protocol.

Respy, Mick

[Steve]

Hopeful,

Look down about 15 posts to one from Old Man.  He's attached the protocol as a word document.  There is also a link somewhere below that to a site vacuumthearapy.org that has the protocol on the Extras page.

Good luck.

[Tim468]

Will, that all sounds pretty challenging. I'd suggest going back to the drawing board entirely, perhaps with a new doctor (perhaps not). It seems that you need more data. I would want to repeat the vascular studies to see if blood delivery is impaired. Second, if you were able to get a complete erection one way but not another, that is confusing - doesn't make sense to me.

So that is my advice - get more or better information about how your body works and see if that helps guide you to a more individualized plan of action.

TIm

[Will]

Tim...thanks for responding with the valuable information.  I have been using the Soma Correct since last april and it seems to work some for me.  I am just a little discouraged with the soma due to the difficulty it is for me to use the largest tube.  To explain, I have trouble getting blood to the distal half of my penis - the base engorges fine.  It seems as if the blood travels well up to the middle of my penis, but at that point there is like a blockage (nothing i can feel with my fingers) because the blood will not pass through well at all, which results in the base getting too much blood to the point of pain therefore unable to pump anymore.  No matter how slow I pump, not enough blood will go through the last half of my penis.  Now the small and medium tube does well...itis just this large tube that gives me trouble therefore not able to complete the recommended regimen for the soma.  Could this be a ring of scar around my penis restricting the blood - if so I do not feel anything there?  In reference to your advice about using a ved for my ed, I cant get enough blood past the middle of the shaft to obtain a usuable erection.  I have considered using a low dosage of triplemix and inject it before trying the large tube to see if that would help bust through this area.  Any advice on this?  And...thanks a lot for replying to my message.

[Tim468]

Hi Will,

A couple of issues pop up (so to speak). First, Peyronies Disease is a clinical diagnosis (as is ED) and a doctor who hears a story of someone coming in with a new dent in his penis, and who says that you do not have Peyronies Disease because he cannot feel anything - well that worries me (as does his erroneous information that you are too young to have it). It implies someone who is not listening well enough, and that always makes me worry that they won't read enough either. Simialrly, pushing up on dose of a good drug can make a lot of sense, but if loss of effect of a drug is NOT a usually seen phenomenon, then that should lead to more of a workup, not more of the drug.

If blood doesn't stay in there, then it seems that you would be a good candidate for a VED. Alternatively, if blood flows in easily when you are aroused, then it might be that all you need is a constrictor (otherwise known as a cock-ring) to keep the blood in there after it goes there with arousal. I would definitely look into something like the ErecAid or Soma like devices.

Finally, I would not go first to surgery for a couple of reasons. Since you are young, it is possible (even likely) that your Peyronies Disease is not a more "normal" aging related problem with connective tissue and wound healing, but more likely to be due to a general *tendency* to have abnormal "wound healing" or inflammatory mechanisms. Thus, I see you as being at higher risk for getting a new or more lesions after surgery. Secondly, it still seems too early to go to surgery (disease may be still evolving), and finally, you have not yet tried much in the way of non-surgical therapy.

From where I stand, it seems that you have several problems that might be *very* treatable, and should lead to good functioning erections, and a good chance of straightening out you shape too. Good luck!

Tim

[Will]

Hello all.  I am a 34 year-old man who has been impotent since age 18.  When Viagra was made available, this worked wonders for me each time i used it.  However, a few years ago my hip was crushed in a car wreck, and since then Viagra does not work well at all anymore.  One year after this hip injury, on one of the occaisions the Viagra did help, I noticed a large dent in the top of the shaft of my penis.  Went to see my urologist as quick as I could (he is a well-known specialist in Peyronies Disease) and he examined me and felt no lumps - he said i did not have Peyronies Disease, and too, that i was too young.  I could no longer get erections of any sort - not even viagra worked.  I then began getting a left bend of my penis and went back to the urologist.  He diagnosed me with Peyronies Disease but still could feel no lumps.  He ordered a duplex ultrasound and gave me a hot to induce an erection for the procedure - it produced a very floppy penis - no erection.  The outcome of the procedure shoed good blood inflow, but leaky veins, however, he said it was not an extreme leak problem.  He did find a very small lump of Peyronies Disease, and said it was not major - anyway, he diagnosed me with Peyronies Disease which are causing leaky veins.  He advised the Peyronies Disease was a result of having a catheter inserted in my penis for a prolonged period of time when my hip was crushed.  I now use the soma correct and have been for 1 year.  About 6 months ago, he prescribed trimix shots and it worked fantastic!!  But now, 6 months later, it does not produce an erection, even if I try 1cc at a time.  He told me to keep on trying this 1cc trimix and if continues not to work, he will prescribe a "super" trimix (stronger stuff I suppose).  Dealing with this since 18, you can imagine, I am getting pretty desperate.  He says the penile prosthesis is an option, but recommended that I have the penile ligation surgery before opting for the prosthesis.  What are some of your thoughts on these choices?  Thanks.

[Old Man]

Mick and Steve:
Glad to see that you guys are seeing some results of your therapy work. Just keep up the exercises under the protocol and you should see some gain on a monthly basis if not sooner. However, be patient and use extreme caution with the pressure. That is the watchword in VED Peyronies Disease and ED therapy.

Mick:
No one will fault you for feeling like a teenager again! I will be 77 soon and I don't look at keeping up with progress in therapy of this mess a frivilous business. You need to keep measurements to know for sure if you are gaining anything. It is very serious and I intend to help others all possible until my time here is up.

Best regards to you guys and all others working with some form of therapy for this disorder/disease!

Sincerely, Old Man

[Mick]

Hi Steve:

     Glad you found some use for my progress report.  I am really only concerned with the angulation and the plaque, but decided it might be useful to monitor the other items.  I feel like a 74 year old junior high school kid
doing the measurements, but I guess it's for a good cause.  I have gotten so much out of this forum that it's worth it.  Besides, I doubt if I'll ever meet any of the members face to face.  Sounds like you have a long way to go; I hope and pray that you will do well with the VED.

     Respy, Mick

[Steve]

  Mick
Thank you so much for the status report.  I just started with my Soma Correct last week, and am looking forward to some similar results.  I didn't take 'before' size measurments, but my 'angulation' is starting at 70 degrees, and it's my main concern.  I too will be trying to post my progress.

[Mick]

     Today marks the end of the 2nd month of my use of the Soma correct according strictly to Augusta's protocal (See my first report, reply # 112, this thread).  Progress has been good but not quite so dramatic as it was in the first month.  Here are the figures:

                                 Feb. 25                 Mar. 25                  Apr. 25

Length flaccid                  4"                      4 1/4"                     4 1/2"

Length erect              4 1/2"                      4 7/8"                           5"

Girth ecect                      5"                      5 1/2                      5 5/8"

Angle                     15 deg. dorsal           5 deg. dorsal              no bend

Placque                  3/8 " strip from base     no discernable       no discernable
                             of shaft (dorsal)                change             change
                             to base of glans

There was a brief temorary set-back: by day 45 (Apr. 10), the angle had been reduced to zero, but on day 54 (Apr. 19), a bend of approximately 10 degrees dorsal was observed.  Within a day or two, however, the bend again disappeared and has remained so to date.  These is no discernable change in placque, but it does seem somewhat more flexible; perhaps the thickness has been reduced (?). 

     My next report is scheluled for May 25.

                             Respy, Mick         

[Old Man]

Tim:

Yes, you are right about certain restrictions in usage of the VED. As with any medicine, procedure or therapy there is always cases that bear the brunt of the negative side. However, in the VED usage, my caveat has always been to use extreme caution in its use and especially in using the retainers for erections. Improper removal of these after sex can and will cause more trauma. The instructions that come with the Osbon Esteem clearly indicate that caution must be observed. I have found that when removing the retainers that one should pull out on the "ears" of the ring(s) and hold for a few seconds to relieve the pressure of the blood in the penile shaft and then slowly pull it off towards the head, etc. Another caution is that plenty of lubricant must be used when doing any Peyronies Disease exercise or removing the ring(s).
 
The cases you talked about are interesting in that they occurred in older men. The VED usage could have caused the onset of Peyronies Disease, but, it could have been the result of other causes. Suppose that no one really knows for sure. If the VED can help the majority of the cases of Peyronies Disease, then it would be worth the risk of using one.

Once again, I would like to make it clear to any and all that the retainers:

ARE NOT BE BE USED AT ANY TIME DURING Peyronies Disease EXERCISES, WHETHER ONE IS USING THE OLD MAN'S REGIMEN, THE 26 WEEK PROTOCOL ORIGINALLY FURNISHED WITH THE SOMA CORRECT OR ANY OTHER PROTOCOL.

Using these retainers during the exercise will put excessive pressure on the erectile chambers, blood vessels and most definitely will cause more injury to them. I know from personal experience that this is the case.

I am very pleased that we now have physicians like yourself and totheleft posting here. You guys can keep us on the straight and narrow when it comes to medical precautions. Currently, I am in the process of getting my personal urologist to become a member here. Her background is very extensive in the ED and Peyronies Disease field. Her residency was done in a city where she worked in a VA and other hospitals in that area. Do hope that she can see fit to join us and we can have the benefit of a urologist on the forum. This is what it is all about, helping others with this crazy malady.

Regards, Old Man

[Tim468]

Thanks for the explanations.

The above article by Wessells said in the discussion (uh.. I think, since I don't have it here) that the constrictor band was not to be used (in that protocol, which was done in conjuction with surgery) as it might cause more injury.

The VED has also been implicated in *causing* Peyronies Disease in a case report. "Patient 4: a 65-year-old man developed Peyronie's disease after 4 years of correct VED use. Patient 5: a 62-year-old man with neurogenic impotence following a radical prostatectomy developed penile ecchymoses acutely following placement of a smaller constriction ring. He subsequently developed a dorsal penile plaque with mild dorsal curvature."

The other case report I read was of a man trapping is testicle under the constrictor band by accident. His wife's attempts to cut the band off only cut the grip on it. What I like most about that report is that the old man recovered without problem, and most of all, that he was 85 years old!

Of course, the problem with case reports is that we do not really know if something is cause and effect. The case 3 report above eventually was treated with a penile implant. Who is to say that would not have happened if he hadn't been using the VED?

After all, we placed leeches on people thinking that bleeding them was good for them - and often people got better! It only took about 400 years to figure out that bleeding wasn't really useful. OK, OK, except  for priapism...

Tim

[Old Man]

tim468:
Hawk says that I am the resident VED guru, so I will try to answer some your questions. Have used the Osbon Esteem manual model VED for over 10 years, almost 11. My history is posted elsewhere on the forum, so I won't go into details of that here. Only to state that at present my Peyronies Disease is in remission with only a small indication of a nodule about midway of the shaft when erect. In flaccid state, hardly noticeable and have no curve/bend anywhere.

Now about your questions: The length of time that the vacuum should be held during each pumping cycle can vary from 10 seconds to not more than 20. The most efficency is seen by repeated cycles of pumping up, hold for the time you desire, release and pump again. This action causes more and more blood flow. Although it is venous as well as arterial blood, it causes more oxygen to be forced into the erectile tissue and hopefully in or around the tunica, etc. The total time of these repeated cycles is determined by how much time one has to do them and not to excess to cause more microtrauma. Each person must determine the length of time to do the exercises based on their best judgment. Pumping up and holding the vacuum for 10 to 20 minutes or more does not allow the penis to expand and contract like a nocturnal erection does, so that is the main reason for the shorter repeated cycles.

Question about the retainer ring(s) used to hold up erections: Each medical quality VED usually comes with retainers for erections and are different is size, shape and ability to hold an erection. It takes practice using them to determine the proper one that will hold up an erection long enough for sexual intercourse. They must not be left on longer than 30 minutes. Since they act similar to a tourniquet, they must be removed after 30 minutes to allow the blood to pass back into the system. Also, to allow the penis to reduce to a flaccid state as in a natural erection. Removing the retainers must be practiced so that one can remove them with the least amount of pressure so as not to cause any damage to the erectile tissue. Again, one must practice doing this until they become familiar with the process to avoid any further trauma.

Personal Note: I used the VED for about two weeks before it became second nature to achieve an erection so that sex was possible without losing the erection. It took about 6 months of Peyronies Disease therapy to get rid of my symptoms to the state that I am today. The exercise regimen that I used was developed under the supervision of my urologist and with my trial and error system. It is totally different that the 26 week protocol for the Soma Correct style of VED.

Why the graduated cylinder size: The three cylinders system was developed by Augusta Medical Systems based on their experience with the earlier models of the old Osbon system. Mr. Geddings Osbon who owned the Osbon Esteem and other VED models sold the rights to one company, who later sold it to the Timm Medical Div. of Endocare, Inc. in MN. His son, Julian Osbon, now owner and operator of the Augusta Medical Systems company designed the Soma Correct model VED for the purpose of treating Peyronies Disease. For some reason, it had to be pulled from the market for Peyronies Disease and is now under study to clear up that problem. The theory of the three cylinders is that the small cylinder holds the penis in a more straight position when first starting the therapy. As time progresses, the larger cylinders come into play to allow for more expansion of the penis during the exercise cycles. Toward the end of the 26 week protocol, the larger cylinder only is used. Usually, by this time, the penis has begun to straighten, if it is going to, and there is no need for the penis to be constricted, etc.

Please excuse the long explanation, but I needed to elaborate on each question enough to cover the details. If you have other questions that I can field, let me know and will try to address them.

Regards, Old Man

[Tim468]

Addendum:

In an article by Hunter Wessells (the urologist in Seattle that some have gone to), he said to use the VED as follows:

"Daily vacuum expansion of the penis using an ErecAid (Timm, Inc., Eden Prairie, Minnesota) was initiated 1 month after surgery for a minimum of 3 months. The men were instructed to use the vacuum erection device to expand the penis 10 times in succession to the most complete erection tolerated without applying the constriction band."

It did not say how long to leave the vacuum in place. This was from a surgical report by Wessels entitled: "EFFECT OF INCISION AND SAPHENOUS VEIN GRAFTING FOR PEYRONIE’S DISEASE ON PENILE LENGTH AND SEXUAL SATISFACTION".

Here is the abstract's conclusion:

"Conclusions: Incision and venous grafting of plaque leads to statistically and clinically significant increases in penile length in men with Peyronie’s disease. Preoperative erectile dysfunction and cavernous arterial insufficiency were associated with a higher risk of postoperative erectile dysfunction. Nevertheless, patients reported a high degree of satisfaction with their overall sex life."

As we like to say on the net - YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary).

Tim

[Tim468]

I have used a VED, though not following a protocol of any sort. Some questions and observations:

1) Why the graduated cylinder technique, using gradually larger tubes? Once a negative pressure is created, it doesn't seem to me to matter one way or the other if the tube is larger or smaller.

2) Why the vacuum/release/recreate vacuum protocol? Is there some reason that that makes more sense than simply applying a vacuum and leaving it for a period of time (ie 10-20 minutes)?

3) If one uses a VED as an aid for erectile dysfunction (ED), then that is usually accompanied by placing a ligature around the base of the penis to trap the blood drawn in by the vaccum. Some devices (ie the "medical VED" device made by "ErecAid") have a rubber ring that can be slipped off of the base of the cylinder and onto the base of the penis. My concern is that tis will be traumatic to the Peyronies Disease penis, and can lead to further injury or placque formation. My "common-sense" recommendation is to simply apply a vacuum and to leave the cylinder on - though this is not going to be much help if you are using the VED to fix ED!

Tim

[Old Man]

Hawk:

Many thanks for listing the link to the Soma Protocol. I was never able to get it set up for some reason.
I am sure that it will be of value to many.

Regards, Old Man

[Old Man]

Steve:

I have tried to attach a simplified version of the Soma Protocol to a reply on the forum. Sent it to Hawk who will try to get is on somehow.

The Birmingham Urology listing is very confusing unless you know the equipment as flexor said. His explanation below is very good and should be no problem to follow when applied to the Birmingham list. Maybe Hawk can get the other one listed soon.



Regards, Old Man


THE THERAPEUTIC TREATMENT PROTOCOL FOR SOMA Correct is attached to this post in MS Word format.  Click below. Hawk

[Steve]

flexor,

Thanks for the clarification.  Now that the protocol isn't included with the unit, I'll be depending on prior users for detailed information.

Steve

[flexor]

Following Hawk's link to the Vacuumtherapy site, the protocol described there is the SomaCorrect protocol, but unless you know the equipment, it seems to me less clear than SomaCorrect's own literature.

The SomoCorrect has a hand vacuum pump, which fits on one end of a large cylinder. The other end seals with a rubber insert ring against the body, with the penis inside the tube, and this contains the vacuum. A loose medium diameter tube fits inside the larger tube, and a loose smaller diameter tube fits inside the medium tube. These two inserts change the effective inner diameter, but play no part in sealing or holding the vacuum.

SomaCorrect own literature calls these tubes A (smallest), B (medium) and C (largest) and says that for week 1 you would use Cylinders A-B-C. So when theVacuumtheray list says "Week 1 Small cylinder", it is giving the size of the inner insert (ie use A-B-C). When it says "Medium cylinder" it means using B-C. And when it says "Largest cylinder", it means using the Somacorrect (cylinder C) without any inserts.

[Steve]

Old Man
  Thanks so much for the valuable inforation.
I got my Rx today for the Soma Correct VED, and am mailing it in with my insurance info.  I plan to follow the protocol in that was in the link unless you've got any 'personalized' modifications to it, like you do with the Osbon unit.  If so, let me know and I'll drop you a personal message, and we can set things up over email.

Thanks again, and I'll be posting my results.

Steve

[Old Man]

Note to all:

Will try to answer all the questions below in one posting. Yes, it is true that Augusta Medical no longer provides the protocol with the Soma Correct. For some reason, they were required to have more clinical evidence of its use for treating Peyronies Disease. Therefore, they removed the Peyronies Disease protocol from their packaging and will continue to do so until they have new approval for a medical quality VED. It is now marketed only for ED.

According to my source at Augusta Medical, the link that Hawk posted below lists the viable and correct protocol for use with a three cylinder VED unit. That link does not state the brand name of the VED used in the study done by the 1,000 patients. It simply says that a three cylinder or 3 stage unit must be used to use the protocol.

Now, about the differences between the Osbon Esteem manual model and the Soma Correct regimens:
We know that a 26 week protocol is available for use with the Soma. the Osbon Esteem, being develoled primarily for ED therapy, does not have a protocol in the package for Peyronies Disease therapy. The regimen that worked for me and others using the Esteem was developed by me under the supervision of my uro who had experience in a VA hospital with Peyronies Disease patients.

The Esteem regimen is usually developed for an interested party by me using the symptoms that he presents, i.e. amount of curve/bend and where it is located on the penis shaft, where plaque/nodules and other affected areas are located, loss of dimensions and any other item peculiar to that individual. The exercises must be varied to suit the individual's symptoms.

The Soma protocol and the Esteem regimen are basically the same. The Esteem has only one cylinder, but does have inserts that control the size of the opening. There are two of these available, the larger one comes with the VED when purchased, the smaller one if needed, must be purchased separately. They are still available from the Timm Medical Division of Endocare, Inc. in MN. Exercises with the Esteem are controlled by the individual as he uses the regimen over a period of time. They are diffferent for each case of Peyronies Disease.The Soma just uses the developed protocol, etc.

My usual caveat about using the VED for Peyronies Disease therapy is that it works for some and not for others. All I know, is that it worked great for me and has for others. I guess that it is like the old saw: "Nothing ventured, nothing gained." I firmly believe that it is a viable solution to Peyronies Disease for at least some.

Will be glad to field any further questions about the protocol and/or Esteem regimen. There is really no set of exercises that I have that would apply to all. However, I suppose that one could be developed with certain stipulations based on the different symptoms that have been presented by individuals.

Note to Steve:

Either of the VEDs would give you good therapy exercises for Peyronies Disease. The Soma is designed primarily for Peyronies Disease, but can work for ED. The Osbon Esteem is designed for ED, but can work for Peyronies Disease.

Regards to all, Old Man

[Hawk]

I cannot address whether the Soma Correct is currently shipped with or without the protocol.  If it is shipped without, the only reason would be that the FDA did not like some of their statements about VED and Peyronies Disease treatment since those statements were not supported by properly conducted clinical studies. Basically, if you cannot prove it, then you cannot say it to sell a medical product.  The issue may have been more with a few advertising statements rather than with the protocol, but I cannot answer that question. 

Having said that, Old Man provided me with a link to the Birmingham Urology Association which posts the Soma Correct protocol.  You have him to thank for finding and providing this link, I am just posting it on the forum.

http://www.vacuumtherapy.org/extras.html

PS: I recommend that those interested, copy the information.  Websites change and links often become useless for what they were intended.

[Mick]

Old Man:

     What's the thinking about Augusta's not including the Soma protocol with the merchandise?  Seems to me it's a pretty useless piece of equipment without it.

Respy, Mick

[vincenc]

"I have two computers that are used in working on the forums and the protocol is on the one that is not being used today. Will send it from the other one directly to your email address as soon as I boot it up again."

No need to hurry...Thank you very much in advance!

Regards,

Vincenc

[Steve]

Old Man,
I'm going in to the Uro's tomorrow and plan to ask for a VED.  I'm going to ask for the Soma Correct, but may get the Osbon (or something else?).  Is the protocol document that you've compiled the same for the Soma and the Osbon, or is it specific to one or the other?
Thanks for your experience.

[Old Man]

vincenc:

I have two computers that are used in working on the forums and the protocol is on the one that is not being used today. Will send it from the other one directly to your email address as soon as I boot it up again.

Regards, Old Man

[vincenc]

Hi

Thank you all for taking time and provide ASAP answers….

Hawk – Yes, I agree with you totally… I am aware of the O2 issue. But on the other hand there were posts from other patients that also claimed to have firm natural erections, but yet gave credits to their recovery to the VED….However, such posts are not numerous enough to make a final judgment. This is one of the reasons, why I agree that it is important to participate in the forum…Hopefully we could statistically pick out some of the most efficient approaches…

Old Man – The repeated exercise makes indeed some differences when compared to natural erection…Maybe this is the key, who knows…You said in your last post, you can forward the soma correct protocol….If it is not too much trouble, I would be very gratefully if you can mail it to my address  (vincenc_sanches@yahoo.com)

Thank you.

Have a nice day!

Vincenc

[Old Man]

Steve:
You are 100% correct in saying that the effect of the cylinder has a bearing on straightening the penile curve of Peyronies Disease. Since the shaft is more or less held in place while pumping, the resistance causes more blood flow to be placed in that area. That is the principle of the three cylinders of the Soma Correct VED.

The three cylinders range in size from about 1 and 1/2 inches up 2 inches. There are two sizing inserts that are used on a varying basis according to which cylinder(s) one is using. I just got an email from one of the marketing managers at Augusta Medical Systems explaining a few details about the protocol that did come with the Soma package. He stated that the 26 week protocol is no longer packaged with their VEDs until further notice. He gave me a web site where they can be obtained. I also have it stored on my computer and can forward it to any an all who wish to have it.

Again, the cylinder does play a part in helping straighten the penis while using the VED. That is the primary reason for their use.

Regards, Old Man

[Steve]

  Old Man and all...doesn't the fact that the cylinder of the VED 'forces' the erection to be straight (or at least straighter) have some bearing on the VED's results too?  To my un-informed brain, the fact that the bend is forced straighter during the erection places more tension on the plaque and thus more stretching and straightening.  Any thoughts?

[Old Man]

Hawk and Vincenc:

Hawk, You and I have discussed this subject many times and I agree with you in that the VED draws both venous and arterial blood into the penis. However, the VED produces an erection much firmer than even the best natural erection. That in itself is not so good because to hold up an erection that firm produced by the VED it must be supported by the retainer(s) otherwise it would revert back to the natural one. If one can develop a natural erection firm enough for intercourse, they are ahead of the game so to speak.

So, now about the benefit of using the VED to get erections and/or for Peyronies Disease therapy. If used properly and in moderation, the VED can and will produce very good erections and good therapy for Peyronies Disease. Used for ED is no problem because all one has to do it simply pump up the erection, slide the retainer ring off the cylinder onto the penis and finish the intercourse, etc. Used for Peyronies Disease therapy, the pumping action has to be done under controlled conditions or in a set pattern in order to produce the desired results. A strict regimen of exercises done on a daily basis over a long period of time is required to see good results. Therefore, one must have patience to continue these exercises even though it seems no progress is being made. Some guys see immediate results, others work for months without success. Others never get good resullts.

So, bottom line of what I am saying is that one has to try the VED exercise to be able to know if results for him are obtainable. It is kind of like the old adage, nothing ventured, nothing gained. In my particular case, all known treatments and efforts to get rid of the Peyronies Disease symptoms failed. Other posts on this and the old forum have been devoted to my history so I won't repeat it here. All I know, is that the VED therapy regimen that I followed for about 6 months got rid of all my symptoms and at present there is no hourglass indentation nor plaque/nodules that I can discern. The routine was developed under the supervision of my urologist who had administered the VI injections along with other meds, etc.

Vincenc: Hope that the above might give you some insight about what the VED therapy did for one individual. There are others on this forum and the old forum that have experienced similar results. It would only be fair to state and there are posts indicating no results.  As I said above, one has to try the routine to be able to know if results for himself can be obtained.

To answer your questions about short duration erections versus natural ones, I say that during the therapy routine with the VED, you do produce more erections or near erections that are firmer than most natural ones. The repeated exercise of the erectile tissue and tunica is the key to more stretching action of VED erections than the stretching done by natural erection. Thus, the tunica being stretched beyond that of natural erections causes it to retain its stretched condition longer than that done with natural erections.

The above carries my usual caveat in that the opinions expressed are clearly only those of myself. I am not a doctor, but do have considerable experience in ED and Peyronies Disease counseling.

Sincerely, Old Man

[Old Man]

Mick:

Good show on what has developed for you in just a few weeks. Keep up the good work. I corrected my post about cylinder C.

Thanks, Old Man

[Hawk]

Vincenc,

Thank you for stepping up and becoming one of those that you thank for making this a great community.  Your thanks is demonstrated even more by your participation than it is with the statement of thanks, and it is very appreciated.

Your question is a very thought provoking one that I have pondered at length.  I also think I have a lengthy post somewhere on this topic with similar questions and my thoughts.  In short, my personal opinion based on my logic and some established facts is that a firm natural erection is better than a VED erection.  It would have as much stretching power, much more oxygenation power (much of the blood VED's pull in is O₂ depleted venous blood, not O₂ rich arterial blood)

I do think a VED is superior to weak natural erections .  I have never heard a satisfactory
explanation why someone that gets a very firm natural erection during the day, and the usual several firm nightly erections, would benefit from a VED.  If anyone can provide a convincing explaination, I would like to join in the discussion.

PS: My post was Pro's and Con's of VED's on Nov 30th 2005

[vincenc]

Hi!

Although I am following this forum (and the old one before) for about a year (from the onset of my Peyronies Disease), this is my first post here…

My case is not much different then the most of the stories here... Got first mild symptoms (small lump) about a year ago (I was 27). Went immediately to the uro and he calm me down saying all I need are few shots of some medicine (VI)...I visited his office for about 6 months and got about 6 injection as well… Needles to say the remedy did not work at all… The situation worsened…I now have few lumps and a curve for about 35 degrees…Anyway…did some research, find this forum, bought some Vit E, PABA, Acetyl L-Carnitine…It seems it helped a little – at least the pain is gone...the curve however remains…

I am considering also the VED, but one think questions me over and over again… I still have normal erections – night erections and also regular sex life. Is the erection produced by VED in any way different then the natural one? Since, obviously the natural daily erections are not eliminating my Peyronies Disease symptoms (although they might be much worse without them, who knows)…So basically I would like to know your opinion – can the erection produced by VED be more curative then the natural one? And if yes, why; what are the differences in the mechanisms? I was thinking that maybe this protocol is the key – since the erections are repeated in short period of time…which is of course not the case by natural erection…

Thanks for your help and also a big thanks to all individuals who are working so hard for this great community!

Vincenc

[Mick]

Old Man,

Good explanation.  One small typo, though.  #5 should read cylinder C.  By the way I am in week 7, the first with cyl. C alone.  I fit very easily into cyl. A right from the start, so the other combos are naturally no problem.  The vacuum is so strong that I expand to fill the entire diameter of cyl. C after the 2nd. or 3rd. pump!

Regards, Mick

[Old Man]

hopeful:

Read your post about the sizes of the Soma Correct cylinders that you wrote Mick, but I will take the liberty to post them for you:

1. small black insert, I.D. 1 and 1/2 inches
2. large black insert, I.D. 1 and 3/4 inches
3. cylinder A penis end, 1 and 3/8 inches, approx. I.D.
4. cylinder B penis end, 1 and 7/8 inches, approx. I.D.
5. cylinder C penis end, 2 and 1/8 inches, approx. I.D.

I say approximately on penis end since I do not have a micrometer for a more accurate measurement.
The above sizes will suffice since they are not that critical.

All three cylinders nest into each other for the very first week's therapy sesssion. At first, it will probably seem awfully small and there might be some difficulty in getting your penis to work up into it. Using plenty lubricant and being patient with the first sessions will produce results, so one must be cautious at first. Patience is the watchword at all times when using a VED. Extreme caution must also be exercised in order not to over pump the vacuum pressure. At any sign of pain or discomfort, one must stop the pumping, relax the pressure and resume after several minutes.

The 26 week protocol for the Soma requires that one use all three cylinders in an orderly routine as specified on a weekly basis. Some exercises require one use the different size inserts to allow for expansion of the penis during use of the larger cylinders. The instructions stated which cylinder(s) to use for each specified week's exercises. Also, there is definite time and number of cycles that one is supposed to do, etc.

I have been evaluating the Soma Correct manual model for Augusta now for about 8 months and find that is it will work for Peyronies Disease exercises as well as for ED. For ED, one has to order the separte retainer ring package to hold up the erections after pumping. I use the Soma for maintenance of what I have achieved on the Peyronies Disease symptoms and when I use it for ED, I simply use the Osbon Esteem manual model retainer rings as they work just as well.

Hope that the above gives you the info you desired. If there is anything further that I can help with, let me know. Mick and I have been talking by emails back and forth about the VED regimen, etc. so he knows about all this too.

Regards, Old Man

PS: Hopeful, forgot to mention the length of the cylinders. They measure a maximum useable length at 7 inches. Any penis longer than that would require longer cylinders. Do not know if Augusta Medical can provide longer cylinders or not. I will try to fin out and let everyone know.

[hopeful]

Mick- what are the (3) sizes-?


Hopeful!

     The Augusta protocol for the Soma Correct is indeed included in the instruction manual which accompanies the device when purchased.  If anyone wants to see it, I can give it to them off line.  It can only be used with a 3 vacuum chamber apparatus.

Respy, Mick
[/quote]

[Steve]

Hopeful,

As I mentioned in some of my earlier posts (in the Verapamil... forum), I brought up the subject of Ionto at about my second visit, and it was met with a blank stare.  He was totally unaware of the process!  I showed him the articles I'd printed off from Dr Levine in Chicago, and his comment was that they 'don't do that here', and they don't have the equipment.

Later, I'd contacted Dr Levine directly, and although he didn't have any studys going on that would pay for the unit, he offered to set me up with a Ionto unit at my own expen$e (1000-1500).  Between the out of pocket expense and the idea of 'visiting' a Dr over the phone/internet for treatment, I elected to go with VI with 0 results after 10 injections.  Although, my Dr says he had another Peyronies Disease patient who showed a great deal of improvement after his 2nd injection (lucky guy!).

Steve

[hopeful]

Steve,

I am curious- who is your URO- and did he discuss or suggest the IONTOPHORESIS by www.physion.com- I am trying to fin other guys who have used this protocol before buying-where is he located?

Hopeful

[Mick]

Old Man and Steve:

     The Augusta protocol for the Soma Correct is indeed included in the instruction manual which accompanies the device when purchased.  If anyone wants to see it, I can give it to them off line.  It can only be used with a 3 vacuum chamber apparatus.

Respy, Mick

[Old Man]

Steve:

Yes, I did at one time on the old BTC forum post the exact formula (Regimen) that I used to work my Peyronies Disease symptoms. There so much heat placed on that post that I just gave up and did not list anymore. It has been given to a number of guys who have asked for it off line on that forum and some on this one too. It is available to any and all who have a desire to use the VED therapy.

To explain a bit further about the two medically qualified VEDs that I have used, I would give this information: First, the Osbon Esteem model with a little change in their instructions works very well for Peyronies Disease therapy in addition to the primary purpose of ED therapy, Second, the Soma Correct was designed primarily for Peyronies Disease and it was marketed by several distributors until Augusta Medical had to "pull the plug" to speak since they ran into a problem. It can still be purchased from Augusta as an ED therapy device. The Soma Correct has its own protocol covering a 26 week course for Peyronies Disease. Do not know if that protocol comes with the unit now when purchased.

Bottom line is this, either unit can be used for ED as well as Peyronies Disease. Both are of good medical quality and have a life time warranty as far as I know now. The warranty should be a question to ask at the time of purchase, etc.

If I can help further, let me know. If you decide on the Osbon Esteem manual model, I will give your all the assistance you desire about a routine to use.

Good luck to you in getting the VED and ask about insurance coverage. Some companies will pay at least a portion of it.

Sincerely, Old Man

[Steve]

Old Man,

As they say, I should have listened to experience first  (you'd told me that it probably wouldn't work)...I've been on the VI treatment for 10 injections so far (following TV) with exactly 0 results so far (I've got the weekly photos to prove it).  My Uro has said that the next course of treatment is probably surgery, but I brought up the subject of VED's at our last meeting, and he offered to set me up with their rep right away!  I told him that I wanted to research it a bit more, and am glad that I did.
I've just finished reading the entire VED forum, and have learned that the VED of 'choice' for Peyronies Disease seems to be the Soma Correct with the Osbon Esteem leaning more to the ED treatment side -- am I reading this correct?
Also, you've mentioned in a number of places that you've got a regimen of treatment that you've worked out that seems to have good results.  I noticed that you haven't posted it, and was wondering if you made it available on personal requests.
I'm going to take the Soma Correct 'prescription' form from their website to my Uro Wednesday to see if I can get that unit.  Otherwise, I'll ask for the Osbon unit unless you have any other suggestions.

BTW, I'll be documenting my progress  with the VED too, so maybe I'll have some results to post here like mick.

[Old Man]

Ace:

Somthing is rather amiss if they want you to be billed for the $900.00 plus cost. Anyway, check out EBay as there were some Osbon units listed there yesterday. They have been bought on EBay for as low as $50.00 each. On the old BTC forum, I believe it was juma that said he bought two of them there for only $100.00. So, check it out.

Yep, will be glad to assist you in any way with the routine/regimen that I recommend for therapy. It has worked well for me and quite a few others.

Good luck to you, and keep us informed as to your progess in obtaining the VED.

Sincerely, Old Man

[Ace]

Thanks, Old Man,

I'm feeling a pretty strong lack of confidence in both my insurance company and Apria Healthcare, who I have to purchase it through. Something just seems fishy with the 200% markup.
I'll probably drop you a line once I get it (if you don't mind) as it sounds like you've worked out a pretty successful regimen with VEDs. Meanwhile, 6+ months on vitamin E and just over a month on Ginko seems to be making a difference for the better. Some improvement in girth, but none in the length.
More soon...
Ace

[Old Man]

Ace:

First, the $900 plus price is way too much. The company that has the rights to produce the old Osbon Units is Timm Medicial Division of Endocare, Inc. located in MN. Their price is much cheaper than that you were quoted by your insurance company. There are several sites on the web that you can purchase the Osbon Esteem manual VED for $375.00.

Here are two of them: www.erecaidpumps.com
                               www.intimate-health.com/erecaid.htm

Check out these two sites and you will see their pricing, etc. I would not pay the $900.00 plus price unless your part would be less than the $375.00 price, etc.  If you desire to contact me off line, do it on the private message board or email me at harold868@hotmail.com.

Will be glad to work with you on getting everything going for you.

Sincerely, Old Man

PS: Occasionally, these Osbon units appear on EBay auction, you might want to check there too.

[Ace]

I got an Rx for a VED, and after a long run-around with my insurance company (according to them, I'm a woman, and their computer will automatically reject coverage on a gender-specific item for the wrong sex), I was given the name of a company that I have to buy my VED through in order to have it covered. $100 deductible, then 25% of total is what I have to pay. Anyway, the company I have to deal with can't give me any information about the pump other than that they think it's manufactured by a company called Timm. They don't know if it's manual or battery operated etc etc. It looks to me like Timm makes the Osbon unit. I was hoping for the Soma Correct based on the info on this forum, but it looks like I'll have to settle. It also seems really expensive based on what I've found on the internet. The company I have to buy it through charges $953 for it. All the Osbon units on the web seem to be in the $400 range. Anyone have any thoughts about this or positive experience with the Osbon?
Thanks,
Ace

[Hawk]

Angus,

I want to congratulate you on a very interesting and informative post.  You did a great job with the picture attachment

[Angus]

    Attached are 4 images of 2 VED's that I have made. This is simply an informative post to share what I have done and the results; I cannot make recommendations on a use or regimen for treatment... that is beyond my scope. I use a regimen that I came up with myself but it is a sort of hybrid using safe guidelines suggested by Old Man and the graduated cylinder sizes used by a commercial system. I have positive results for my Peyronies Disease symptoms using the ones that I made, but details of those would be beyond the scope of this post. These are home made devices and do not have the slick appearance of commercially made ones... I made changes to them as I went along and the appearance sometimes reflects that. I do feel that they are safe devices, as safe as any commercially made ones, and more safe by far than the sex toy variety of VED's. The safety factor I believe is increased on mine because of the addition of vacuum gauges that show the actual inches of vacuum (HG) in 1 inch increments so a target in inches -HG vacuum can be reached and maintained without overpumping by trial and error.
   VED1.jpg is actually the 2nd unit I made. Cylinder material is clear, rigid acrylic tubing, size 2" outside diameter (OD) with an inside diameter (ID) of 1 3/4". The cylinder walls are 1/8" thick. The white end cap is a simple PVC 2" pipe cap from a building materials store. The small tube protruding from the end cap is the attachment point for the hand bulb type vacuum pump which is from a sex toy type VED; the cylinder for it was discarded; I just wanted the hand pump. The hand pump has a rotary vacuum release valve. I feel that the bulb pump gleaned from a novelty VED works very well and has a good quality relief valve; all I need was a simple, inexpensive bulb to produce vacuum; vacuum is vacuum no matter what the cost of the pump. The small tube attachment point itself was made from a Bic pen housing cut down to about 1" length. It is epoxied into a 3/8" hole drilled into the PVC end cap. The hand pump tube (not in picture) is made of a soft silicone type rubber and it attaches to the VED cylinder with a slip fit over the cylinder attachment point. The vacuum gauge is a 1 1/2" WIKA brand with a scale of 0 to -30 inches HG of vacuum. For my application the gauge rarely if ever is brought to a readout of over -5 inches HG of vacuum. The gauge comes with a brass 1/8" NPT pipe thread mount and is threaded and epoxied into a hole drilled into the PVC end cap. I used teflon tape as a seal originally, but it didn't have a perfect seal so I went with epoxy on the threads for a dependable seal.
   VED2.jpg is the same VED from the other end. After cutting the 2" acrylic cylinder to length (8") and sanding the ends smooth, I needed a comfortable, safe insertion point that had a good seal, so I obtained flexible vinyl tubing, 3/8" OD x 1/4" ID from a building supply store. I split the tubing down one side lengthwise with a razor knife and slipped the sanded end of the acrylic cylinder into the split vinyl which covered the end of the cylinder around its circumference to make a relatively soft and comfortable insertion point that makes a good seal against skin. The vinyl tubing is held onto the acrylic cylinder with a product called Marine Goop, a marine sealant that is safe for skin contact when cured. It is also from the building supply store. The vinyl tubing was held in place with tape while the sealant cured. In the picture, the vinyl tubing has a home made appearance; the irregularity you see is the cured sealant inside the small vinyl tubing; the tubing exterior is very smooth. To date, all sealants have held up well, caused no irritation or problems, and the vacuum gauges have not failed; I must take care when cleaning the units to not let water enter the guage from inside the cylinders. If I were to change anything, I would seriously consider putting one vacuum gauge inline with the hand pump tubing instead of on the cylinder itself using a T fitting from plumbing supply; this would eliminate the possibility of water from the cleaning process getting into the vacuum gauge. Making these is an ongoing process and I make changes as I go along.
    VED3.jpg is the first VED I made. I wanted one with an inside diameter of 1 1/2" so I used a semi-rigid reinforced vinyl tubing from the building supply store. It is sold as 2" tubing but the actual OD is closer to 1 7/8", with a true ID of 1 1/2". The end cap for this one is also PVC similar to the first one described, but this cap is threaded with an ID of 1 3/4". This threaded PVC cap had to be forcefully threaded onto the 1 7/8" wide vinyl cylinder. Again, Marine Goop was used as a sealer with the end cap. The attachment point for the hand pump tubing was yet another cut down Bic pen. Since the inside diameter of the reinforced vinyl cylinder was the size I wanted, I simply sanded and worked the insertion end of the cylinder until it was well rounded and smooth. A Dremel tool with a sanding barrel attached was used to rough in the radius shape of the cylinder end, then finished by hand sanding with 220 and 400 grit sandpaper. It is very smooth and comfortable and causes no problems.
   VED4.jpg is a picture of the same reinforced vinyl cylinder VED with the soft silicone rubber hand vacuum pump attached. The same pump is used for both cylinders and just transferred back and forth to whichever one is being used. The Bic pen housings used for the attachment points hold up well and never leak air.
   The acrylic tubing is from Tapp Plastics and the vacuum gauges are from McMaster-Carr. Both have websites. I am not connected to these companies in any way except as a customer. 
   My motivation for making these was a need to be active in a search for relief of my Peyronies Disease symptoms. My quest isn't over by any means, but this project started my positive results. Again, I feel my VED's are safe devices for me, and I try to base my quest with these on patience, caution, education-information and a no-rush attitude, and I urge all that experiment with devices or treatments for Peyronies Disease relief to proceed in a like manner.
   Our extended family (Peyronies Disease sufferers plus their spouses or partners) must have hundreds or thousands of talented thinkers and creators; our healing may come from within.