VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices

[Old Man]

getting_there:

Obviously, you have not completely read the 26 protocol for using the VED in Peyronies Disease therapy. There are several statements there and all over the forum about using too much pressure while using the VED for any therapy including ED and especially Peyronies Disease. Overpumping can and will cause the condition you are describing. As most men tend to "bruise" easily" as get they older, you should recognize the fact that you must be very careful with the vacuum pressure. Some report using a gauge to measure the amount of pressure they use. This is not necessary as your body is the best judge of how much vacuum to use.

VED therapy must be approached with extreme caution with regard to the amount of vacuum pressure used. The best rule of thumb on the amount of pressure to use is this: -- If you feel any discomfort or pain, release the presssure and do not, repeat do not, pump to that level afterwards. Trial and error is the best guide to how much vacuum you should apply. VED therapy is a case where less is better than more. More and higher pressures will definitely work against your therapy if applied.

Will be glad to help in any way, so feel free to ask any and all questions with regard to the VED therapy. Hope you have better luck when you resume using less pressure.

Old Man

[getting_there_in_oregon]

When i pump with the larger cylinder i get red specks (tiny broken capillaries) or the whole area will be made red with it. it's in the hourglass area that was effected in the original injury. it's does not hurt and it's not extreme but it's somewhat consistent. it's not deep on the inside, it's just the loose skin slightly 'bruising'. it happens a little on the medium sized cylinder and a reasonable bit on the large one. not much at all on the small one. it's just the skin and it doesn't make pain.

when pumping i like to push the edge. if i don't, it doesn't feel like anything is really happening. it feels a just little swollen after, and sometimes it's a pretty dang swollen with a little bit of red dots or quite a few red dots. you know... like a mist of them on the skin surface.
the redness seems to be there most of the time with the big cylinder. admittedly i bruise really easily in general. if i bump my arm or leg even a little on something... usually a bruise!

is this going to far? i don't do it until hurts. i don't pump until it looks like it's going to explode!
is the goal to get it really full and tight? or should is still seem soft when pumped as far as you go?
WHAT'S EVERYONE ELSE'S EXPERIENCE WITH THIS?
where's the line, how much is too much?!?

[Old Man]

SimonBart:

Skunkworks is 100% right! You must use plenty of lubricant when doing the VED for therapy or for practice etc. Try this - assemble the VED as usual, apply a good portion of lubricant up into the A cylinder as far as you can reach (some guys report using a bottle brush to do this), lubricate your shaft well and as you insert your penis into the cylinder apply a liberal amount on your head portion and this will greatly assist you in getting the head and shaft to go further out into the cylinder. Practice this until it becomes comfortable for you before resuming any sessions with the 26 week schedule. It takes time and patience o realize the full benefits from using the VED therapy.

A tip that worked well for me and others is this  - as you insert the head portion into the opening of the cylinder, jockey the cylinder around a bit on the head and apply a small amount of vacuum to help pull the penis on out into the cylinder. Sometimes, as I am inserting my penis into the cylinder, I push the release valve momentarily and push the cylinder down on the shaft. Of course, the entire procedure should be done before trying to get an erection or else you cannot insert the penis into the small A cylinder.

Please feel free to ask any and all questions you might have. VED therapy is not intended to cause pain or discomfort to anyone at any time. If this occurs, you are doing something wrong, so ask questions.

Old Man

[skunkworks]

maybe you need to apply lubricant to the head and shaft of your penis so it slides down the tube easier?

[SimonBart]

Old Man...thanks for your reply.

Yes...I am using the 3 cylinder model...and the A & B are inserted inside the C.

When using either the A or the B cylinder, my gland gets fully engorged and the shaft a lot less. The pressure on my gland feels uncomfortable and I feel I need to stop increasing the pressure. When using the A cylinder my gland completely jams in the cylinder and I feel that there is no way the penis can increase in length even if I did increase the pressure due to it being stuck.

Using either of these A or B cylinders fails to get a full erection in the shaft without getting uncomfortable due to the suction. Is it possible that I'm just too sensitive ..or do I need to just take more time to get accustomed to using this new piece of equipment?

[skunkworks]

I have to say I am pretty unimpressed with Fitzz customer service at the moment.

Paid around 12 days ago, and tracking then and now states 'Pending_Tracking_Update', which to me suggests that it has not even left their warehouse yet.

Nor have they answered any of the three emails I sent requesting an update on what is going on.

It is difficult for me to call them due to the time difference between Miami and Sydney,Australia.

[Old Man]

SimonBart:

Based on your last statement in your post, it appears that you are using the Vitality OTC three cylinder VED. If that is the case, the A and B cylinders must be nested inside the C cylinder to be able to use the VED. If that is the case, your erection will not be as large as a natural one since the penis will be confined in the small A tube. There is no way that it can expand in the cylinder as a natural erection due to the small size. How are you able to determine if your erection is not as firm as a natural erection? Do you still remain erect after removing the cylinder from your penis?

You should look up the 26 week protocol in the VED forum board and follow the notes at the bottom of the page. You are right to practice with the VED before embarking on the schedule, etc. You must not, repeat, must not overpump the pressure when using the VED. The best rule of thumb about the correct amount of pressure is how your penis feels when applying the vacuum. If you experience and pain or discomfort you are overpumping the pressure and must use the release button immediately. Another thing, never, ever use a retainer ring on your penis while using a VED as this will surely cause further damage which you do not need nor want, so be careful not to use one

I have no idea why there is not a user manual or video supplied with the VEDs. This has been a problem for quite some time now and it would seem like that these would be supplied.

Keep up the good work and advise if you have any further questions about VED usage. You can use a private message if you have any special requests that you need to keep private.

Old Man

[SimonBart]

I just got my VED yesterday and am experimenting with it's usage. I'm a little scared on how much to pump up the pressure. I haven't pumped it enough to get a fully hard erection as it feels kind of weird with all that suction.

It's looks and feels like it's getting full girth...but nowhere near the length of a normal erection and nowhere near as hard. Do I just need to keep increasing the pressure?

I'm just trying out the A and B tubes to get a feel of how this all works. In about a week I will start the 26 week program after I feel comfortable with everything....but I'm not sure I'm doing it correctly.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[jackp]

Exile999

My urologist office made an appointment for the VED rep to custom fit a VED for me in his office.

If you do not have insurance coverage it can be pricey at about $450 - $550.

Jackp

[hb]

Actually, if you go to a compounding pharmacy, they may carry it. I know the Georgetown Pharmacy in Shawnee Mission, KS will sell certain brands over the counter. Most of their clients are seniors, so that is another place I would look.

A pharmacy that is located close to a retirement community. The sex shop VED's are of cheap quality and usually the tube is too big in diameter. They are made that way to convince guys that they will enhance the size.

[skunkworks]

Is there anyway to buy a VED without having to purchase it online?

sex shops, although the quality may be questionable.

[Exile999]

Is there anyway to buy a VED without having to purchase it online?

[Old Man]

Fred22:

I really don't think that you would have a problem using the VED therapy while pain is present. However, if you do use it, you must, repeat must, be extremely careful not to overpump the pressure. A mild version of the protocol would increase the blood flow into and out of the erectile tissue. Overpumping the vacuum pressure can and will cause further damage. So, again, if you decide to use the VED, use extreme caution as stated above.

Old Man

[Fred22]

I'm strongly considering VED, but have been in pain off and on since spring of 2006, curvature since spring of 2008 at which time there was some reduction of pain.  However, I've recently been having flareups of more intense pain.  Doesn't seem to be any change in curvature.  All my uro would prescribe was vit. E. My question is; is it advisable to begin VED therapy while pain is present? 

Fred

[newguy]

getting_there - This is very encouraging for others. Thanks for keeping us posted!

[getting_there_in_oregon]

Newguy, and all:

i don't want to overstate the effects though... i still have a ways to go! but it is really 'getting there' little by little and it's exciting to finally see something creating results!

also i think the swollen feeling you have after a session sorta changes the way you see your self which has long term effects both physical and psychological. look at yourself in the mirror after. it should look bigger just after a session.

originally sex was really complicated due to curve/skinniness and condoms wouldn't stay on as well... now i'm finally at the point where condoms stay on and sex has been great. really encouraging.

[getting_there_in_oregon]

Newguy... i've definitely noticed it makig it straighter. it still has the hourglass skinny in the middle/end though but the gurth has gone up too, and it helps stretch the head tissues and makes them grow i think. the shaft, in all penises, is hard tissues and ultimately cannot really be grown bigger but the head is different. anyway. yeah. it's straightening it! i was using it regularly for only a few months then life changes and a move postponed it. now i'm just a 3 weeks back into it and already see progress again! also, it just makes it feel 'optimized' hahaha. definitely makes you feel like you're getting the most out of what you go!

[cowboyfood]

I received my VED from Fitzz last April.  I called the company a couple of times to check on the order and a guy named Mark was very courteous and helpful. There was some delay in getting the VED out of their door, but Mark kept in contact with me and let me know which day it would arrive.

CF

[skunkworks]

Hehe it has to get all the way to urbenville, NSW so I'd be very surprised if I got it tomorrow

Cheers for letting me know they often don't email you to confirm it has been shipped.

[hb]

The pump I ordered was delivered within a week of the credit card charge. I never received an email about when it was shipped either. Fitzz is kind of sloppy about that.

You will probably receive it today or tomorrow. There was a back order on the Three Tube pumps for awhile but that seems to have been resolved.

[skunkworks]

Hmm the Fitzz people charged my card 6 days ago, emailed me to tell me they'd charged y card 4 days ago, but still have not emailed me to confirm my order has been shipped as they said they would.

[Old Man]

Tim:

I think that you are dead on about keeping water away from the pumps. Can't imagine what would happen if water got inside all the mechanism with no way to keep it dried out.

Some pumps are made to work under water, but don't think there are any cheap enough to be included in a VED type situation.

You and I had discussed your VED before and I seemed to remember you using yours while in the tub, but kept the pump out of the water, etc.

Old Man

[Tim468]

I use mine in the tubs without any problems. Here is a representative picture of one of my cylinders:

[links not allowed]

I often start with an "A" cylinder and then move to my "B" after getting 'pumped up'. That way, I tend to leak less at the base and get a better seal because I am already full of blood.

Here is what this vendor says about cleaning them:

"Pumps should cleaned after use and stored dry. Cylinders may be cleaned with a mild antibacterial detergent like Ivory liquid. Avoid using harsh chemicals or abrasive materials in order to preserve the clarity of your cylinders. Cylinder connectors should be loosened slightly prior to storage. (i.e.: not screwed tight.) Cleaning cylinders or pumps in an automatic dishwasher is NOT recommended, and will void your warranty. "

The latter recommendation is due to the ultra-high temperatures used in dishwashers.

I use a pump for my cylinders that I need to keep water away from as the seal will be lost. A typical cheaper source of a pump is listed below

[links not allowed]

Looking at the medical grade pumps, the best I can imagine is that some folks submerge the electronics to wash them (duh), but it seems that one has to have a way to wash out a cylinder!

Tim

[Hawk]

I know one thing for sure, if you own either an Osbon or Augusta Medical systems VED, you had best not immerse the pump in water to clean them. They will only last for one of two more pumps before going on the bad side!!.

Pretty important to know.  Thanks for the information.

[Old Man]

Hawk:

I know one thing for sure, if you own either an Osbon or Augusta Medical systems VED, you had best not immerse the pump in water to clean them. They will only last for one of two more pumps before going on the bad side!!.

I recall talking to Tim about his pump once, but remember he has a pump that comes from a company that makes medical equipment for labs and hospitals. Imagine that they are made to work in more of a rough environment than the ones made by the above companies.

Old Man

[Hawk]

WOW, I can't imagine that you would have immersed the vacuum pump in water to clean it! Most VEDs emphatically state not to immerse the pump in water to clean it...

If you have any of the Osbon or Augusta model VEDs, the pump should never be immersed in water, etc. I would also say that most any other model VED pump should not be immersed in water to clean them.

Old Man, I think Tim actually said he uses his in the bathtub.  I have often filled mine (Vacurect) with water with no problems but it is a rather unique design with no separate pump.

[Old Man]

bodoo2u:

WOW, I can't imagine that you would have immersed the vacuum pump in water to clean it! Most VEDs emphatically state not to immerse the pump in water to clean it. I simply just keep mine as clean as possible while using it. Then after use I wipe it off with a soapy clean wash cloth and then wipe that off with only a wet cloth to remove any residue of the soap. Finally, dry it with a clean dry cloth.

You do not state which model VED you have, so I cannot relate to which pump you have. If you have any of the Osbon or Augusta model VEDs, the pump should never be immersed in water, etc. I would also say that most any other model VED pump should not be immersed in water to clean them.

You might try placing a cylinder on the pump and then hold the cylinder against your body and go through several cycles of pumping to try and get the excess water out of the pump. Other than that I have no suggestion.

Old Man

[skunkworks]

All of a sudden my VED is not holding air. I can see water coming out of the tip of my pump when I fill it with water to clean it. The water looks like it's coming from the area where the pump meets the piece that holds the hose. I have tightened the piece, but the water, and the air, still comes out.

Do you Yanks have Blu-Tack? Sounds like a Blu-Tack job to me.

[newguy]

getting_there - Have you experienced any curvature reduction through use of the VED?  I notice that you've been using a VED for quite some time.

bodoo - Can you perhaps place tape over the area?

[getting_there_in_oregon]

skunkworks!

good choice. do remember to take it slow. it took me a little while to get the hang of, in fact i got pretty annoyed at first. but it starts making sense. don't go too far too early. it's a pretty interesting process!

[bodoo2u]

All of a sudden my VED is not holding air. I can see water coming out of the tip of my pump when I fill it with water to clean it. The water looks like it's coming from the area where the pump meets the piece that holds the hose. I have tightened the piece, but the water, and the air, still comes out.

[skunkworks]

Thanks for being so patient and answering all my questions OldMan, Hawk and everyone else.

I bit the bullet and ordered the vitality 3 cylinder package. Big chunk of change (especially with shipping to Aus) but it seems like my best chance to fix a very important issue.

[Old Man]

skunkworks:

Yes, you would regain your original girth simply by the stretching effect of the vacuum in the cylinders. You would then see the original size outside of the cylinder once you achieve an erection whether it it natural or obtained with the VED. The large cylinder only is to be used for achieving erections.

Answered your PM earlier tonight.

Regards, Old Man

[skunkworks]

Hmm I must have measured something wrong then, I am definitely quite a bit wider than normal, but not excessively so. As for the formula, maths is not my strong point

But lets say hypothetically that you used to have a diameter of 2.5 and it decreased after peyronies to 2.0 Using a cylinder of diameter 2.25 would mean you could never regain your original lost girth?

[Hawk]

Actually the formula to find the diameter is a simple circumference or girth divided by 3.14 or C/3.14

At a glance it seems your formula gets the same result because it multiplies by 2 then divides by 2

2 1/2 inches of diameter is 7.85 inches circumference which is beyond an exceptionally large girth

At any rate the diameter of the erect penis is not the issue.  You start pumping from flaccid and the penis conforms to the tube.  only the smallest tube might be an issue.

[skunkworks]

How do you measure the diameter?

(circumference/(2x3.14)) X 2

OldMan - I did read through the protocol thread a week or so back (can't see a child forum though), can't remember seeing anything about this particular issue, but will go back and look again. Also read through the whole 47 page VED forum, no mention of this that I can remember. Have messaged you.

[BSSS]

Hmm, the vitality 3 cylinder comes with Three Vacuum Tubes - Inside diameters of 2.25", 1.75" and 1.5".

I just measured, and my erect penis has a diameter of around 2.5 inches. I guess none of those tubes will work for me?

I've been using the vitality 3 cylinder for about 2 weeks now and at first I didn't thing the smaller tube was gonna work for me either.  I found out after getting used to it that it will work.

With that in mind I'd like to report a couple of my 'subjective' findings.

1. I've noticed a definite improvement in my flaccid state.  Not nearly as much turtle effect. It may not be larger, but it seems to hang better if that makes any sense.

2. I've also noticed a definite improvement of my urine stream. I'm not sure why this is the case but am very encouraged by it.

I plan to keep working the protocol and hope to see results with curvature and hourglass.  I'll keep reporting any differences I see.

Also like to thank many here for the email and PM support; can't tell you how nice it is to know I'm not doing this stuff alone!

BSSS

[Hawk]

Hmm, the vitality 3 cylinder comes with Three Vacuum Tubes - Inside diameters of 2.25", 1.75" and 1.5".

I just measured, and my erect penis has a diameter of around 2.5 inches. I guess none of those tubes will work for me?

How do you measure the diameter?

[Old Man]

skunksworks:

Yes, the Vitality three cylinder VED will work great for you. Read the protocol in the VED section of the Child Boards and you will realize why there are three cylinders.

If you need further clarification, send a PM and I will explain futher. No need to review here what is already shown in past posts, etc.

Old Man

[skunkworks]

Hmm, the vitality 3 cylinder comes with Three Vacuum Tubes - Inside diameters of 2.25", 1.75" and 1.5".

I just measured, and my erect penis has a diameter of around 2.5 inches. I guess none of those tubes will work for me?

[skunkworks]

After actually going into a few 'adult' shops to check out the merchandise, I think a cheapy pump is really not going to cut the mustard. Will wait till I can afford a good quality model.

[Tim468]

Jackie,

It is my belief that those who suffer an obvious injury and an injury response, do better with the VED and medications than those who simply develop it gradually.

I think that this might be because of a stronger tendency to bend in those with chronic Peyronie's, versus the bad luck to suffer a bad one-time injury - but lacking the ongoing inflammatory response that accompanies gradual progression.

I hope I am right for your sake! Keep up the good work.

Tim

[lwillisjr]

Les,

Thanks for the responses so far - any others are appreciated.

HopeToHeal

Keep accurate records. Measure your size and angle of curvature while erect. Tracking this is a good way to determine if your progress is improving, or if things are getting worse. Start using either the VED or traction, and start what is referred to here as the PAV cocktail.  Pentox, L'Arginine, and low doses of Viagra (Ciallis has a low dose daily option now).

This seems to be the best combination to provide some improvement. Be patient and try the above. I always recommend getting to a "good" sexual function specialist who specializes in the treatment of Peyronies Disease. We can makes some recommendations of doctors depending on where you live.

Les

[Hawk]

I agree.  Good news and a great detailed very specific post.

[cowboyfood]

Jackieo,

I hope everyone takes a moment to read your recent post in the forum's improvement thread regarding your VED usage.

http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,466.msg22062.html#msg22062

Way to go!

CF

[HopeToHeal]

Les,

All of my plaque seems to be in the top side of my penis and my curve is completely upward. Maybe I confused you by my statement about my penis getting injured by being physically bent in the downward direction during sex. I think that may have caused a tear in the top part of my penis and the resulting plaque there.

Thanks for the responses so far - any others are appreciated.

HopeToHeal

[lwillisjr]

Hopr To Heal,

I agree with Jack. You asked if you "missed a window"...  Well doing something is better than doing nothing. So get started now. I don't think you will do any further damage with the VED, just use as instructed and be careful and slow with it.

You also stated that you feel the lumps and plaque on the top of your penis. This should make your erection curve upward, but you say it curves downward. So that one has me a bit confused.

Les

[jackp]

HopeToHeal

A very good an detailed account. There is hope. The first thing you need to do is get on the recommended VED therapy and start taking the Trental.

There is no fast fix. It takes time and dedication for the VED exercise to work. I can tell you from my story that the VED therapy does work. It may be 3 months to a year but it will work if you follow the protocol. Do not over pump.

I hate to tell you this but the 1/3 1/3 1/3 account your doctor said is true. Back in 1995 when mine started we did not even have that. 18 months after peyronies started you need to reevaluate things and look at your options.

I can tell you this even though I lost 1 1/2 inches in 1995 the VED therapy I did for a year helped me gain back length. For details read My History.

The best source of advice for VED therapy here is Old Man. I took his advice and was well rewarded.

If you have questions this is the best forum for them. Hope I can help.

Jackp

[HopeToHeal]

Hi All,

Newbie here looking for some advice. My post could apply to multiple topics, but since I'm considering the VED, I thought this was most appropriate place to post.

I have to say I have spent the last several days browsing most of the topics on this site and I am more depressed and discouraged than ever.

My story - 44 years old, never had any problems with my penis before (no curve at all). Last November (10 months ago) I noticed a lump at the top of my penis near the base. I also started to have very painful erections (nocturnal and daytime) and some slight upward bending. Thinking back, I seemed to recall an incident where my partner bent my penis a little too hard in a downward direction a few weeks earlier. Thinking back more, I also recalled an incident a few months prior where I was attempting penetration without a full erection, and may have bent my shaft excessively. But I'm not sure about either of these incidents, as I didn't feel any pain at the time.

I immediately went to my GP who sent me to a urologist. The uro examined me and confirmed Peyronie's. I got the usual "1/3 better, 1/3 same, 1/3 worse" speech and an Rx for Trental. He said they wasn't much else to do.

Unfortunately I was dealing with another serious health issue at the time and that one was my priority. I've been dealing with this issue for many years, and as a result I work very closely with a diverse group of alternative medicine specialists. One of them referred me to Herazy's website and I began using topical copper serum and DMSO 2-3 times per day. I also used a homeopathic scar reduction formulation topically and orally. I did NOT begin the Trental.

This went on for 3-4 months. During this time my penis stayed relatively straight, although I noticed two long plaques also forming along the upper left and upper right sides of my shaft. A dent appeared on the right side of my penis for awhile and then disappeared. The terrible pain I was experiencing from my night-time erections decreased over time.

In February, my penis was injured again during some gentle sexual contact. I was shocked at the pain I experienced (strong dull ache) and the fact that within 24 hours, my erect penis had become far more deformed. I now had a substantial upward curve.

Unfortunately, over the next 6 months, life became very complicated for me and I basically ignored my penis and what had happened to it. I stopped the daily topical applications and did nothing. I limited sex to occasional careful masturbation and even that seemed to cause a flare-up of pain and possible increase in curvature. I wasn't looking too closely at my penis due to my disgust, fear and shock at what was happening to it. Basically I would avoid sex as long as possible and then masturbate out of desperation, only to get more upset at the result.

Fast-forward to today. Now 10 months after the start of this nightmare, I can feel the plaque going all the way up the top of my shaft to the glans. I have a very strong upward curve (70 degrees?), my length is shortened by 2+ inches, my girth is reduced and I have few nocturnal erections. My shaft is smaller in all dimensions in the erect and flaccid state - it feels like it is shrinking. Sex is now completely impossible - even careful masturbation is very difficult, causes pain and is totally unenjoyable. I only do it occasionally to try to keep the "plumbing working" to some degree. I can still achieve and maintain erections, although they are not as strong as before - which is no surprise to me given the deformity and my mental state when dealing with my penis. But the feeling of constriction in my entire penis is freaking me out.

I realize I made a big mistake by avoiding this issue and and possibly by not taking the Trental. I hope I have not completely screwed myself, but am worried that could be the case.

I'm wondering what advice and perspective some of you who have had this for awhile could give me. Some questions:

1. Have I passed some window of opportunity by basically doing nothing for 10 months? Is it too late to start the Trental?

2. From reading this site, nothing sounds very promising, although stretching or the VED seems to offer some hope. So I am considering those two options, and from what I've read I'm leaning toward the VED. I'm hoping that if nothing else, it will help my penis from losing all function due to lack of use and the tightening due to the plaque. Does that make sense?

3. One of my big concerns with the VED is that I could cause further injury to my penis - I feel that the unknown cause of this plaque accumulation is still there, and that any manipulation of my penis will simply cause more to accumulate. Should this be a concern?

4. Has anyone else noticed their condition worsening as quickly as I do? (overnight accumulation of significant plaque and change in deformity)

5. What else would you recommend I do?

Finally I have to wonder whether my Peyronies Disease was caused by a long course of a fluoroquinolone antibiotic I took several months prior. Antibiotics in this class are Levaquin, Cipro and Avelox. They are know to cause connective tissue damage, and I have heard other men blame them for their Peyronies Disease.

Sorry for the long post, but I feel very isolated, confused and depressed about this issue and am hoping for some answers.

Thanks Guys...

HopeToHeal

[Overcomer]

Overcomer - I typed a post in the Oral treatment thread that may be of use should your urologist refuse to give you pentox. As for the VED, I think it's a viable treatment for almost all peyronie's sufferers and the earlier people explore it as an option the better. People knock the VED, and admittedly it's not for everyone, but there are those here with good results from it, so it' certainly something worth giving a go. If it benefits you then you can stick with it for good, and if you come to the conclusion that it isn't of use (after one of two cycles of the program) then you can re-evaluate at that time. The only people I'd be in two minds about suggesting it to as those with pain.

hey new guy, thanks for your response. let me tell you a bit about myself. i have had peyronies now since i was about 20 years old. it's pretty distressing because of the shape and length loss associated with it, and now the ed. i've seen a few urologists who have flat out told me not to worry about it and if it's such a problem to just get surgery. now that's a complete joke and unacceptable how a lot aren't even willing to try to help, granted the disease is unpredictable. so until i get around to seeing one of the more reputable doctors in the field i decided i should probably do what i can myself, bang on doors as loud an hard as possible to get some sort of solution. with the time and help of some of the great members on this board i have been introduced to lots of helpful information and possibilities that could help me that the dr's i've seen haven't even had a clue about. it's funny i think the members on here know more about the disease and cuttin edge developments then the dr's i've seen. i still have not really pursued any kind of hardcore treatment in this entire time but am looking to when i see my urolgist again hopefully within a month. the ved is one of those things. i have seen people knocking the ved but if it works, it works and i'm not ashamed of having to use it or tell anyone i do...i have a problem afterall. i rather not have it, but it's the cards i was dealt.  i'm lookin to hopefully get on pentox and use the ved together. i just wanted to know if the ved was viable in my case for the bend and waisting i've developed + ed from blood flow. i know the ved helped old man tremendously. of course when i start doing any of these treatments i will keep a log so as to help others.