What is the best traction device for Peyronie's?

[Thomas347]

Guys,

I have peyronies for probably 10 years, and actually I believe I injured my penis again during sex and am having pain.  I have a big plaque on the left side giving me an hourglass look.  Sometimes, the plaque feels soft, sometimes hard.  I can't take this stress anymore.  I'm going to see Dr. Levine on June 19th.   Anyways, I've been reading about traction devices and there are soo many.  I was thinking about AndroPeyronie since it applies more stress to the side you are trying to straighten,  but I've seen other good ones like SizeGenetics, ProExtends, FastSize, etc.  

Which one is the best?   And has anyone experienced improvement in curvature with traction?  I mean if wear this thing for 3,000 hours and don't notice anything, I will be pist.

Thanks,
Tom

[Buckeye]

Hi Tom,

I recently went to Dr. Levine and he recommends FastSize now only available through a private company and through a recommendation of a Doctor. This is the device that was used in one of the few formal studies and showed results so I went with it. After a couple weeks, I also ordered just the comfort strap and piece that it attaches to from X4labs (they sell it separately and is compatible with the FastSize - part of their marketing strategy I'm sure). It is a lot more comfortable and almost identical to the same FastSize piece except for the wider and much more comfortable strap. The X4Labs device is about the same price but comes with more goodies such as DVDs, etc. The X4Labs springs have more tension - if I remember 1600 grams and 2000 grams. The FastSize is 1500 grams. Since I've only been using the traction for 4 weeks now, I don't know about any results or if using the other strap is going to make any difference. All I know is that I probably would not be wearing the device as much as I am if I had stayed with the original strap. I personally don't think there is much difference at all as the devices are essentially identical. I was told that a guy from FastSize went to X4Labs and since there's no patent it's no surprise they're almost identical. I was also told that EuroExtender (not sure I remember the exact name but it does begin with Euro...) is owned by the same company as X4Labs. X4Labs is the Canadian/North American leg of the company. I would also think that some of the other manufacturers are very similar. I originally decided to go with the FastSize because of Dr. Levine's recommendation of the device and that it was the device used in the study. It ended up costing me about another US$100 buying the X4Lab strap, so if I had to do it over again I'd probably go with the X4Labs originally. But unless you're pretty robust down there I probably wouldn't go with the 2000 gram spring. I don't go back to Dr. Levine until late July so you might ask him about the X4Lab device and the comfort strap to see what he says and then give us an update.

Buckeye

[ThisWontWork]

@Buckeye

pay attention to that Dr Levine has economical interest in "FastSize". Maybe he is PART-OWNER in that company???

Using a traction device is kind of trauma that could trigger a new active PHASE! It might be much worse by stretching of the penis. Just like the use of a VED (if over-pumping). Be careful with your one and only joy-stick

[Luciano]

There is one (i cant remember if it was fastsize or another one) that is indentical to the european Andropenis.
the thing is to check the pricing, and if you go through the threads, i remember reading here on the board that there are very cheap ones that do the job also. (disadvantage: they do not last as long.) but if they are 3 times cheaper thats ok IMHO.

[newguy]

@Buckeye

pay attention to that Dr Levine has economical interest in "FastSize". Maybe he is PART-OWNER in that company???

Using a traction device is kind of trauma that could trigger a new active PHASE! It might be much worse by stretching of the penis. Just like the use of a VED (if over-pumping). Be careful with your one and only joy-stick

I do think it's careful with all mechanical treatments (VED, traction etc) to be careful, as those with peyronie's already are likely more susceptible to further injury. It's a bit of a catch 22, because without using such treatment options the change of improving the condition is limited too. The same is likely too of injection treatments. There's always a potential downside. The best approach is not to get too optimistic that improvements are going to come along overnight. That stops them becoming gung-ho about things.

[james1947]

As Newguy stated, any treatment takes time, six months and up, except surgery that is an instant solution.

Regarding ThisWontWork statement:

pay attention to that Dr Levine has economical interest in "FastSize". Maybe he is PART-OWNER in that company???

You ever see a doctor that don't have medication samples of one or an other company? Maybe all are getting something according to how many they have subscribed?
From the other side, Dr. Levine is one of the leading Peyronies specialists, much appreciated by many of us.

Just be carefull when using any mechanical device, listen to your body, don't overpump, don't overstretch etc'

James

[Thomas347]

Hi Buckeye,

Thanks for your detailed response.  I will definitely ask Dr. Levine when I go next month about the X4 Labs device.  I was doing some research and to me it seems the X4 Labs device seems like the best.  They have a traction device on their website that they say is 1500 grams of tension for peyronies as this would be the gentle amount to use and get the job done.  I was looking at andropeyronie from andromedical, but they don't provide much detail or say how much tension.  There whole selling point is you can apply more tension to the opposite side of the plaque.  You can control the direction of the traction in order to apply a stronger force of traction to the opposite side of the curvature.  I don't know if this is good or too much tension?   Sizegenetics looks ok as well, but there website is so freakin gimmicky I don't really trust it.  So far I think I'm going to go with X4 Labs, but will let you know what Levine says after my visit.   thanks

[Buckeye]

Tom, good luck...looking forward to hearing how things go. I had forgotten to add to my previous writeup that the X4Lab device has the holes for the FastSize silicone loop device to hold the penis in place so I've been using both the loop (with the padding) and the flat strap that came from X4Labs. It seems to hold better with less slippage that way. Buckeye

[goodluck]

I have just started to think about incorporating traction with my VED prptocol.

I have read the below and just went into the 4x labs website.  It seems very gimicky to me I can only imagine the other sites. I am not dubting that traction helps but they have some extreamly remarkable claims.  It seems like they are marketing to 18 year olds who aspire to be porn stars.

They imply that your curavture will be gone in 3 month.  They say you can add 3 inches in length in 6 months.  and more of the such.

These claims are based on their customers testimonials.  Is there a professional study?

Also,  400 dollars for their gold package (most popular) seems like alot of cash for some stand offs, springs, tygon tubing and foam padding.

I don't know.  It may be all true but it seems too spectacular and pricey.

What results have people seen with traction?  Improvements and duration to get there.

Thanks,

good luck

[newguy]

Thomas - This micropenis study (http://www.livescience.com/3381-penile-extenders-work-doctors.html) mentions tension increasing from 1.3 pounds to 2.6 pounds over time. I believe that the max tension of most of these units is 3.5pounds. It's heartening that traction does often seem to result in some improvement. As with any treatment though some have more success with others. On the less successful front I'm curious where:

- some men experience no improvement (does this mean that the plaque is too thick to stretch, or that the tension was not enough?)
- some men experience length increase, but no change in curvature (does this indicate that the suspensory ligament was stretched but not the penis?)

Also, where improvements are made, I wonder if it's predominantly the scar tissue that is stretching, or the normal tissue.... or both. I would love to see some before and after scans to see what is actually going on. I mean, traction devices can work for men without peyronie's too, so it follows that healthy tissue is being stretched in those cases. In men with peyronie's I wonder how exactly stretching changes healthy tissue and scar tissue.

goodluck - I like with VED how the penis gets a really good workout in terms of stretch and bloodflow into the penis. Along the same lines of my other thoughts, I wonder what is the deciding factor of some men improving and others not. The composition of the scar tissues? The location? I don't suppose we have these answers really.

[Mike_O]

My opinion = buy a cheap extender on eBay and try it for a few months to get some experience.

The biggest challenge to the extender is using it. Lots of guys spend a lot of money (X4, FastSize, etc) only to discover they do not have the time or the dedication to use it 3+ hours per day - remember that 6+ hours per day is better.

For less than $100 you can get a good extender on eBay - see the vendor LeLuv and consider the "HYBRID Slider ..." (the model with BOTH strap and tubes) - it is simple to use and comes with what you need to experiment. You can also make your own velcro strap for very little cost.

[Thomas347]

I'm going to Dr. Levine tomorrow morning at 9AM, I will make sure to ask him about the X4 Labs device Buckeye,  I have a lot of questions for Levine, I've had Peyronies for quite sometime now, and would like to know what I can do.  I hope I can do traction at least.  I will come on tomorrow, and let you guys know what he says.  

tom

[james1947]

Thomas347

Hope you will have an encouraging conversation with Dr. Levine, wish you all the best.
I am sure many of us waiting for your update.

James

[Buckeye]

Thomas347, hope all goes well...I look forward to hearing. I see Dr. Levine on August 3rd and will ask as well. I've been doing the traction now for about two months and have definitely gained back some of the length and girth that I lost. I've just added the 3rd section - 1 1/8th inches total  - and probably have been averaging 5-6 hours a day over the 2 months. It's a pain doing it this much and I'm not sure it's permanent at this point, but it seems to be working. As to the curvature, it is so hard to measure I figure I'll wait until I see Dr. Levine again in August and let him measure that when he gives me the trimix injection to create a strong erection. But it seems to be working a bit (but I'm also doing the VED protocol and it may be helping as well). I plan to start verapamil injections August 3rd. Plan B if the verapamil doesn't work is to wait for Xiaflex and see if that makes sense to do those injections, and then Plan C is probably an implant. Dr. Levine requires 2 months of traction before implant surgery so in my mind I've just started that process early which hopefully will give even better results than just 2 months of traction.

I've also continued the 3-cylinder VED protocol - I'm in my 24th week - at 20 minutes per day. I'm being conservative with the VED pressure being careful not to over pump and cycling the hold time under pressure to about 15 seconds - really just creating good circulation and probably about a 90-95% erection. Wearing the traction tends to restrict the circulation so I figure the VED helps complement the traction. I'm own thinking, but it seems to intuitively make sense.

I'm also continuing the 400 mg pentox 3 times a day, 5 mg cialis a day, two 500 mg l'arginine a day and two 100 mg ubiquinol a day. I've backed off my lisinopril for my blood pressure as the combination of the above is keeping my blood pressure at good levels. I'll give another update in August after my next doctor visit. Everyone have a great day!

Buckeye

Edit: I used the term trimix above which may not be correct. I don't know what injection Dr. Levine uses to create an erection.

[LWillisjr]

Buckeye

Edit: I used the term trimix above which may not be correct. I don't know what injection Dr. Levine uses to create an erection.

Buckeye,
Did Levine say he would specifically create an erection for some reason?? I ask only because he never caused an erection for me in all the times I was there. The only time was the first visit and this was actually done upstairs in the lab for the Doppler ultrasound. The VI's are done while flaccid.

[Buckeye]

No, he did not specifically say that. I guess I assumed he would to identify where the plague is and if things had changed over the last few months. I guess I'll see when I get there. He did on the first visit and I said in my earlier email that he used trimix to do that. I just wanted to be clear that I misspoke and am not sure what he used. I was reading some posts on the forum about the various elements of trimix and which are FDA approved or not which triggered my clarification. Buckeye

[Thomas347]

I apologize for not responding sooner.  I saw Dr. Levine a couple weeks ago.  He did the Doppler Ultrasound in his office.  Him and his assistant Gina only noticed a small plaque on the left side.  It did not calcify per Levine.  I guess I'm luck y since I have been dealing with this issue for over 10 years.  However, for such a small plaque the curve is still there and quite noticeable curve.  He said it doesn't always matter the size of the plaque,  the size of the plaque does not always tell you the size of the curve.  The lady at the front desk said doctor will ask me if I want to do another new test they have, but it will cost additional $75.  She said they will explain it to me and I could say yes or no.  Basically, all they do is put a vibration on your leg and you say when you feel it and when you don't.  I didn't even realize that was the test, and I got billed another $75 which I wasn't happy about.   It took about 1 minute to do test.   Anyways,  Levine overall is a very nice guy and easy to talk to considering it is quite uncomfortable for me,
He prescribed the Pentox 400 mg 3 times a day,  L-Arginine 2 1000g twice a day, and traction.  He said the Verapamil may cause more damage than good, and it is not worth trying at this point.  I was unsure of doing it anyway, so I was not upset.  
Traction -
Levine gave me the number to order Fastsize.  I ordered the device.  Levine said this was device used in  case studies, medical grade device.  This device designed for non-surgical peyronie's treatment.    The instructions he give you on traction are based on this device.  He writes down your starting length and the baseline length of the device.   He didn't say much about x4 labs,.  He has been using fastsize for a very long time and it has a proven track record.  I wish I would have asked more questions about X4 Labs, but I felt it was at least worth giving fastsize a try first.
Buckeye, I also wish I would have ordered x4 labs first.  When I got the fastsize device kind of disappointed.  The letter it came with said they DON'T supply CD instructions, cleaning spray, replacement springs, and most IMPORTANT the .3 and .5 cm pieces.  WHY?  Did they run out?  I'm frustrated by this.  My starting length is 12 cm.  The device is 9 cm to start.  They only supply bar lengths of 1 cm, 2.5 cm, and 4.5 cm.    So, I can't even add the bars to make 12 cm.  I can do 11.5 , but not 12.  I would have to keep increasing by 1 cm, is this safe?  Especially, once I start getting to higher level?   Are X4 lab springs compatible?  
Plus the cost is $300, which seems really high.  I mean X4 Labs is only $200 dollars for the basically same device with 1500 gram tension.  Plus seems like it would be more comfortable.    Fastsize comes with levine's book. The Fastsize even mentions Levine's 2007 study where patients got 10 to 45 degree improvement with device.  The fastsize is ok, but I wish it came with the .5 cm piece and comfort strap like x4 labs.  
Basically, 200-300 urologists seem to possibly have contract with Fastsize.  This is what Mike Hays president of fastsize and marketing specialist had on his website.  He designed program for referred patients from urologists, one on one level, confidential, private, discuss traction therapy for peyronies.  Trying to define protocols for final clearance factors to solidify FDA approval.
Other devices do seem very gimmicky.   I mean x4 labs has a peyronie's version, the only difference seems to be it comes with vitamin E tablets, which have been proven to not do anything.  However, I  am concerned about the comfort of fastsize.  I wish I would have asked more questions.  But I will be back in a couple months and will be much more thorough.  I guess it was all a little much for me.
Buckeye,  I have a couple questions if you don't mind.  To me the device seems very uncomfortable.  Is it best to wear sitting down?.   Do you think it's possible to wear in an office sitting down?
Did you cut the foam pad for the silicon tube?  I cut the foam pad, but it seems harder to get a secure fit with the foam pad.  
Did you receive the .5 cm length bars from fastsize?
Last,  
I also would like to know what you ordered from X4 Labs?  Did you order the "Quad Support Universal Upgrade Kit"??  Basically you can you the silicone tube and then also use the comfort strap below the silicone tubing.  I just want to find the best thing to do and would love your input.  
thanks

[Old Man]

Thomas347:

If my memory serves me right, the Fastsize Traction Device was supposed to be taken off the market. FDA withdrew their approval for its use with Peyronies Disease.

Others may correct me if I am wrong.

Old Man

[newguy]

I thought that too. It's odd that it wasn't provided with the CD etc. Maybe in being sold/provided without instructions it is not strictly intended to any particular use. A way of getting around restrictions? Who knows. It's a shame you didn't get all of the components you expected. Thanks very much for the detailed writeup.

It's also interesting that you stated that Levine "said the Verapamil may cause more damage than good, and it is not worth trying at this point.". I wonder if he means at the stage of your condition, or under any circumstances? Maybe with Xiaflex on the horizon, he's having second thoughts about going the Verapamil route.

[Buckeye]

Thomas 347,

I thought I would respond to your PM here as you asked the same questions below. That way my response would be available to all. I had trouble using the insert quote function so I just copied and pasted so it doesn't look highlighted like other quote responses. Anyways, here are your questions:

Buckeye,  I have a couple questions if you don't mind.  To me the device seems very uncomfortable.  Is it best to wear sitting down?.   Do you think it's possible to wear in an office sitting down?
Did you cut the foam pad for the silicon tube?  I cut the foam pad, but it seems harder to get a secure fit with the foam pad.  
Did you receive the .5 cm length bars from fastsize?
Last,  
I also would like to know what you ordered from X4 Labs?  Did you order the "Quad Support Universal Upgrade Kit"??  Basically you can you the silicone tube and then also use the comfort strap below the silicone tubing.  I just want to find the best thing to do and would love your input.  
thanks

Yes, I did order the Universal upgrade kit and it fit the Fast Size with no problems. The silicone cord from Fastsize fits just above the wide strap that comes form X4labs. Fast Size are not the most savvy marketers as they say "they don't supply the .3 cm or the .5 cm pieces anymore". I felt cheated like you, but if they had not mentioned they don't supply them anymore, I would never have known or cared. The literature from Levine mentions the CD so when I didn't get it, I again felt cheated. He needs to get updated literature out to everyone so he doesn't create unfulfilled expectations from the customers. X4Labs does sell 1/3 inch pieces, but that's only very marginally smaller than the 1 cm. You could buy a couple of those but you wouldn't be gaining much (they're $25 plus shipping). I've found that the spring provides enough action/compression that the 1 cm increment is not that much of an issue - at least at the stage I'm at. I think as I go forward, the smaller piece increments will probably be better. I've been doing it now for about 2 months. Like you I started out on the setting right out of the box. Since then I've added the 2.5 cm and 1 cm piece. The progression was:
1. First day - used device as is from the box
2. 14 days later - added 1 cm
3. 14 days later - added another 1 cm
4. 14 days later - removed the two 1 cm pieces and replaced with the 2.5 cm
5. 18 days later - added 1 cm.

That's where I am now and this stage has been the most difficult and most uncomfortable. Adding 1 cm at this point is where adding a .5 cm would have been better. I'm also at the point where wearing the device in the down position where it is the least conspicuous is getting difficult. The instructions say if your Peyronies is an upward bend which mine is to wear it in the down position.

I have been wearing mine at work and I've been able to wear it 5 to 8 hours a day. I started out going about 1hr. 45 min. before I needed to go that a break, but now I have to remove it for 5 min. or so about every hour. I'm fortunate that where I work I can do this. I wear a pair of pleated pants that are a bit too big for me which helps disguise it and allows for it to hang straight down. If I have to start wearing it in the up position, I'll have to start wearing a shirt that I don't have to tuck in to provide some coverage/disguise. I don't think I'm going to be able to wear it in the down position much longer if I'm able to add additional length.

I've also converted my workstation to a standup station as it is much more comfortable to stand than sit. I had been wanting to do this for some time now anyways as it's much better for you to do that. I track my calorie intake and expenditure on Livestrong.com and it gives me 274 calories credit each day for standing versus sitting. I've read another article that says you burn up to 800 calories a day by standing, but that sounds a little high to me. I went to Office Depot and bought a hydraulic stand for laptops (on sale for $90) and instead of putting a laptop on it I put a wireless keyboard and mouse. My monitor was already on a stand that tilts up and raises up some so that helped the level and angle of the monitor standing versus sitting. I really enjoyed the change and it is much healthier over all. Others in the office are considering doing the same. If they only knew all the reasoning behind it!

Anyways, I go back to Levine on August 3rd. and anticipate starting the Verapamil injections. I can tell that the plaque is restricting my progress or further progress. I believe the traction has helped the curve some (my wife believes so too), but it is still there. I've also continued doing the VED. I'll finish the 26 week 3-tube protocol in another week. I did ask about doing the VI instead of waiting for the Xiaflex and the response I got from Gina his PA (I assumed she checked with Levine) was that if the VI did not help, I could always do the Xiaflex as well. I also have ED so I may eventually be getting an implant so my down side risk from the VI is not as great. The VED and/or traction is prescribed prior to an implant so that's why I've been doing them. If they help, then maybe I'll be able to avoid the surgery approach.

I hope this answers your question and helps. If you have other questions, let me know.

Blessings,
Buckeye

As to your other questions, I did cut the foam more to my size and the silicone cord as well. I tried wearing it initially with and without the foam but for me the foam helps make it more comfortable. However, it's still not real comfortable. That's why I decided to go ahead and buy the upgrade kit from X4labs and it definitely helps. It also helps prevent slippage. The one thing I found that really helps is to wrap gauze around my penis before I put it on. It helps prevent pinching when tightening down the X4lab strap and provides a bit more padding.    

[Mike_O]

Buckeye - thanks for your detailed post.

I have posted my opinion earlier in this thread.

There are several other forums that have a wealth of information on extenders, usage and results. Most guys posting are looking for increased length rather than correcting a curve BUT nevertheless the topics are of great value and will help any and all.

I am not going to post the links - the sites are easy enough to find with your favorite search engine. Once on the site, look for the discussion forums and then on to topics involving "extenders" or "ADS".

Thunder's Place - yes strange name but this site has been around for many years. Lots of posts in Main Member Forum, Newbie Forum, Pumper's Forum, Reviews, and Injuries/Treatments.

PE Gym - has a forum specifically for "Devices" but there are relevant posts elsewhere.

Matter of Size - a site to sell a bunch of stuff BUT the forums are worthwhile. Hard to find the forum links off the main page so look carefully. Again lots of posts. BTW, I would not buy anything from this site.

X4 Labs forum - they have a pretty active forum but, because it is sponsored by a seller of extenders, there may be some censorship of posts. X4 has been around for awhile yet still overpriced (my opinion).

For shopping purposes - check out eBay - you will be amazed what is available.

[Luciano]

Thanks for all that info Mike!
Just one question, on many of those pages they refer to "Kegels" or kegel excersises for healthier penis. Would they apply to Peyronies Disease also?
i've been looking around to find some instructions on how to do them...
but no luck.. id did find a wiki site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegels
but there they mostly explain for women.
Is there any of the sites you mentioned that have a tutorial on how to perform them?
Luc

[Mike_O]

Kegels are good for all men and women.  Here are a couple of helpful pages:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/kegel-exercises-for-men/MY01402

http://men.webmd.com/kegel-exercises-treating-male-urinary-incontinence