Peyronie's Disease or another abnormal case?

[Dylan]

Hello Board, can't say Im happy to be here, but Im glad there is a forum to help answer some questions. Let me start with a brief history of my situation.

I went to my urologist back in December because I was having trouble with erections, Im 34. I was able to get them when masterbating to porn, but difficulty with my girlfriend. Basically, I was addicted to porn and doing it too much - 5-6x per week. He said I messed up my dopamine levels and had trouble getting aroused without the hyperstimulation of porn. He told me to lay off the porn and stop jerking it so much. I decided to follow a reboot program recommended for people addicted to porn...basically no porn, masterbation, or orgasm for 60-90 days. I went 67 days before doing any of that and finally had sex on the 67th day. It was quick, as you can imagine no jerking for 67 days, but I noticed I was just a bit sore below the head of my penis - thinking it's because I haven't used it in 67 days. I had spontaneous erections during that time, but never noticed or felt anything strange. Maybe around day 75 I masterbated on my own for the first time, I noticed a slight upward bend in my penis around this time. It has not been painful (it was slightly sore, like a muscle you haven't used in a long time), that's all I thought it was until I heard about Peyronies. It's been about 45 days since I first noticed the bend, but since it has been about 3 months since I've been masterbating, it could've started around 3 months ago. I feel no bump, lesion, or hard spot anywhere on my penis, including the spot where it bends. In the last 100 days Ive orgasmed about 10 times and it hasn't been what I would call pain, just slightly sore. I have no explanation for what could cause my penis, that was perfectly straight, to curve upward now (about 10 degrees) just below the head. I thought it was just because I haven't used my penis in so long, it was like a carpet when you first roll it out, and it would return to it's natural shape once I was more active again. But I have no clue if abstaining from masterbating for a long period would cause that...that's why I'm worried about Peyronie's. Of course, I don't want it to progress if it is, so Im reading all I can about it. I made an appointment with my urologist next week to see if this is the case or not. Im praying it's not, but I want to be proactive in case.

The strange thing to me is that it happened when I stopped masterbating for a long period, and was fine just before I did. There has been no trauma, no sign of hard spots or bumps, and only a slight bit of soreness that I really don't feel anymore. Only real sign is the minimal curvature. Sorry for the long winded post. Im just confused and scared. If it does turn out to be peyronies, I will start a treatment right away. I will ask my urologist for a Pentox script, and then start with other supplements others have suggested - adding L-arginine, Acetyl L Carnitine, Ubiquinol. If anyone has any suggestions of a combo of what to start with, for someone in the early stages (2-3months) that would be helpful. Also, Im curious if I should stop masterbation or sexual activity again? As I just had sex this past weekend twice without any pain. Would it be beneficial to massage or stretch the area...if anyone has any suggested routines/techniques to help improve this, again very helpful.

Thanks for any help!

[james1947]

Hi Dylen

You are right no one of us is happy to be here but welcome to the forum.

I will say first that just an urologist making you an ultrasound can tell for sure that it is Peyronies or not. The symptoms you are talking about, bend and soreness with erection may be Peyronies related and may be not.
You don't have pain when having sex so regarding sex I would advise you not to abstain.

abstaining from masterbating for a long period

will not cause Peyronies in my opinion.

As you have just one week to the appointment, I am not advising you to massage or stretch the area.
What I do advice you, read the forum boards related to Pentox and the other supplements because many uro's are not subscribing Pentox.
In my opinion if it is Peyronies, you should start treatment after you will see the uro and the treatment may include:
Pentox 400mg (twice or three daily)
Ubiquinol 100mg (twice or three daily)
2.5mg Cialis (cut the 5mg in two pcs)

Be optimistic, if you have Peyronies is in the early stages, you don't have pain and as I understand you don't have problem of having sex. The chances to stop and even revers the symptoms are good.
Personally, I was abstaining in this stage from masturbation as you wrote you have girl friend and can have sex with her.

James

[Dylan]

Hey James, thanks for the welcome. Sorry I posted in the wrong spot.

I appreciate the suggestions. Why is it Uro's are not scripting Pentox if it's been successful treating the problem? Also, would Cialis be necessary if you can just get erections on your own. I don't think I could afford to take them daily, but I could get erections if needed. I'm a little confused with what some of the supplements actually do, seems like a lot of them improve blood flow, do any of them work specifically do reduce the curvature?

Thanks again.

[Skjaldborg]

Dylan,

I got this at age 29 (now 33) so I know what you are going through. To answer your questions:

1. Why is it Uro's are not scripting Pentox if it's been successful treating the problem?

Peyronie's disease is not well understood even by practicing urologists, therefore many uros and general practitioners are not aware that treatments are available. This is why many uros implement the awful, "wait and see approach" that so many of us here have endured. Also, Pentox has not been widely studied as a treatment for Peyronie's, but it has been found effective in several small studies. Again, many uros are not aware of these studies.

2. Would Cialis be necessary if you can just get erections on your own?

In addition to producing erections, Cialis and Viagra can have the effect of reducing the impact of TGF-Beta, a protein involved with inflammation and the production of scar tissue. Scar tissue is tough and does not flex like normal penile tissue, that's why the scar tissue of Peyronie's disease causes curvature. Think about it like a piece of tape on a deflated balloon; when you blow it up the balloon expands except for the area with tape on it, causing the balloon to inflate abnormally and appear deformed. Cialis and Viagra are thought to prevent "more tape" from forming on your balloon, so to speak. However, if you are not having erectile problems, the uro may not prescribe it. When I went to see specialist urologist Dr. Lue in San Francisco, I mentioned Cialis but he said to just stay on pentox since I had no erection problems. If you have problems getting firm erections, it may be a viable option.

3. Do any of them [supplements] work specifically do reduce the curvature?

To reduce curvature you have to stop inflammation and the spread of scar tissue. Increased blood flow helps bring oxygen and nutrients to the penile tissues to encourage proper healing. L-arginine is one of several popular supplements for Peyronie's. L-arginine is an amino acid that serves as a precursor (raw material) for nitric oxide, a chemical that is involved in the erection process and blood vessel dilation. It is believed to encourage erections and blood flow and thus improve healing. It is arguable how effective l-arginine is in treating Peyronie's; most people get enough L-arginine in their diets.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Skjaldborg

[newguy]

There is one study relating to cialis helping with scarring: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=cialis%20scar so maybe there is a case for taking it? Just throwing another opinion out there really.  

[Dylan]

Thanks for the info Skjaldborg. I will be seeing my urologist in about 5 days to see what the official diagnosis is. I will probably print a couple of the studies for the doc to show the success of Pentox in case. I know they can be stubborn. Im sure I will have more questions if I do have Peyronies Disease. There seems to be a wealth of information here to help people deal with something that does not have a well known treatment, I'm grateful for that!

Thanks again for the insight!

[Dylan]

Hey all,

I saw my urologist today. I explained the situation and he examined me, said he didn't feel anything. I told him I heard it could not always be felt and maybe I needed an ultrasound to confirm - he said that is probably overkill at this point since there is no treatment. That if I was able to have sex and was not in pain I should be ok. I also showed him a pic of the curvature, which is probably closer to 15-20 degrees. He said to just leave it alone and not try to straighten it or I could make it worse. I asked him if he heard of any studies done with Trental or using other supplements, he was of the belief that those studies are usually backed by the companies trying to sell their supplements or prescriptions, and that there's nothing proven to work. He said he's done injections and seen people use traction devices and make it worse. I asked him if sex was ok or would that irritate it, and he said sex is fine, but don't try to manually straighten it out.

Personally, I think he was a bit closed-minded about alternative treatments, but I can understand some of what he was saying. I guess messing with it too much could irritate it more, but I also believe there are people here that have seen improvements with certain supplements/pentox. Have any of you or anyone you know shown real reduction in curvature, and by how much? Please offer some suggestions on what to start with (supplements/dosage) I was thinking Ubiquinol/L-Arginine/Acetyl L Carnitine/maybe daily cialis, and I'd have to call back for a script of Pentox, since he didn't seem convinced it would help. I'm open to any other suggestions...I wasn't officially diagnosed, but he didn't suggest what else it could be. So, I guess it wouldn't hurt to try what has worked for some of you.

Thanks

[james1947]

Dylan

Unfortunately an other uro that don't or don't want to understand that have things that are helping, specially in the beginning of this disease. His statement that an ultrasound is overkill is also wrong.
In my case the uro feel one of the plaques that run along my penis but just in ultrasound he see the two others!
You should try to find an other doctor that have more knowledge, better attitude and it will be ready to listen to your opinion.
From this point of view, my actual uro is excellent (the third I have been to)

I am proposing you to read again Skjaldborg post bellow, it explains why and how this or other medication and supplement is helping.

Regarding a treatment, my opinion is as I have written you in my other post. Adding L-Arginine may change the picture a little bit:
Pentox 400mg (twice or three daily)
Ubiquinol 100mg (one or two daily) In your age you may try first CoQ10 100mg that is cheaper than Ubiquinol
L-Arginine 1000mg daily
2.5mg Cialis (cut the 5mg in two pcs or 20mg in 8 pcs)

The treatment above may stop the progress of the disease and may revers it also.
Don't expect immediate results, even that for me the Pentox and Cialis (and daily VED) made my flaccid to be more full and take it out from my abdomen (it was shrinking so much that just the head was out) in a short time.


I was adding also VED to keep good blood flow into the penis.

James

[reynell]

Was this a urologist or a peyronies specialist?

Good idea on listening on this sight, there is a lot of wisdom at your finger tips.

good luck

[LWillisjr]

Dylan,
Many of us went from being straight to curves of 30-40 degrees almost overnight. Mine progressed until it was 70 degrees. So I can understand your doctor's point of view. With a 20 degree curve and no pain then sex shouldn't be a problem.

I do understand you being concerned about it getting worse. But evidently your doctor doesn't understand or agree. I think most of the men here would suggest being a bit proactive. As long as you go easy and do mild traction or VED usage that this could only help. I think guys who get worse might be overdoing it. Either using too much traction or over pumping with the VED. As always..... anything in excess or over use can do more harm than good. You can get L'Arginine over the counter and is noted for improving blood flow in your penis.

I'm not a doctor, but have studied male anatomy and Peyronies Disease pretty extensively and this would be my approach if it was my penis.

Les

[Dylan]

He was a urologist, not a specialist. But, I don't know if the ultrasound is really necessary anyway, all it can do is confirm it for sure. He didn't suggest anything else that would cause it, and if it's something else, will probably get better on it's own. But I want to be proactive anyway.

Thanks James, sorry I forgot you already recommended a dosage for the supps. I will start on what I can for the moment, I'm going to contact him again just to see if he'll call in a script for the Pentox. If not, I'll go to someone else that will. I will have to hold off on the cialis until I can get some generic stuff from overseas. My insurance won't cover it, and I can't afford a 30 day supply of it monthly. Does anyone have a site they have ordered generics from that worked good for them? I will probably hold off on the traction/VED for now to see if this stuff helps. I'm remaining hopeful, since I don't really have any pain with erections and the curvature is not preventing me from functioning, and with no palpable plaques. Hopefully, I caught it early enough and will have success with these suggestions.

Also, I'm curious how some of your curvatures appeared and progressed over time...how fast did it progress once you first noticed it, stay the same?

Thanks for all the help guys.

[james1947]

I have bought Pentox (Trental) from Riverfarmcy and they have also Cialis. They was prompt and they have good products. They don't ask prescription and they price was 15 cent per pill, here where I am living now are selling for $1.5 per pill!. I read on the forum other good opinions about them also.

https://www.riverpharmacy.ca/drug/cialis

If you will buy the 40 tablets of 20mg ($ 121.99) and cut them to 5 pcs it will come out 4mg and the price 61 cent per day.
To cut in 5 is not so difficult after some trials, to cut to 8 to get 2.5mg is very difficult.

James