Burdock Root for Peyronies Disease?

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Luciano

I was surfing in german forums about Peyronies Disease, when I ran into a post that sounded quite interesting
Its the story of a Russian guy who is in germany now. He had Peyronies Disease for a couple of years.
In russia on a market he talked about his problem to an old lady selling herbs and teas.
She said, she knew about the problem.

So this is what she told him:
Against plaque calcifications there are chinese patches against calcification of the spine... put them on the penis, and wait until they fall off.. (the guy wrote he tried them, but was not really convinced they worked)

But against curvature she gave him a bottle, and told him to take 3 spoons daily for 6 months. As he was going back to germany, he asked her how to make the so called potion himself.
this was the answer:
its made of burdock root, passed through a grinding (mincing) mashine. Then filter it through a cloth so you get the juice. Then add 10:1 alcohol so there would be no fermentation.
thats all.

The guy wrote he took it for 6 months and went from 60degree curvature to 20 degrees. When he stopped taking it (as he ran out of the stuff).. he went back to 40 degrees.
he then collected some burdock roots, mixed the potion in september and affirms he is now at 10 degrees. He ran out  it again, and is now taking 1 spoon a day and is stable. He says he has to wait until june until there is enough you can collect in nature, because it doesnt grow in winter. and he swears it helped him greatly.

At the question about burdock root extract or dried (you can find it dirt cheap on puritans pride - like $5 a box) he said he had no experience, the fresh ground and filtered roots worked for him.

After reading that, I looked up burdock and found:
QuoteBurdock is an herb native to Europe, Asia and North America. The fruit and the root of the plant can be used as an alternative treatment for several medical ailments, including cancer. The National Institutes of Health report that scientific evidence of burdock root's uses as medical treatment are unclear and warrant further study to show strong links between the use of burdock and one's health. Always use burdock root and other herbal remedies under the supervision of a medical professional.

Diabetes Control
Burdock root may be used to control blood sugar levels, according to the National Institutes of Health (NIH). As of August 2009, studies of this use of burdock have mainly involved animal subjects. The effect of burdock on blood glucose has not been adequately studied on people to determine its full benefit. Diabetics and others concerned with blood sugar issues should consult their doctor before beginning burdock supplementation.

Cancer Treatment
One of the active ingredients in an alternative cancer treatment called Essiac is burdock root. The Masonic Cancer Center at the University of Minnesota explains that people who use Essiac have experienced a reduction of pain, inflammation and a slowed progression of their cancer. Burdock root and Essiac as a cancer treatment has been used since the early twentieth century, however, the exact nature of the relationship between the two is not clear. The use of burdock as an anti-cancer alternative has not been approved by the FDA.

Wound Care
The anti-inflammatory characteristics of burdock may play a role in wound care, according to the online health information resource Healthy.net. Steeping the dried root in water to create a tea can help reduce inflammation throughout the body, but using the root as a topical treatment may also be beneficial. Creating a poultice from the dried root and water may relieve irritation associated with skin conditions such as eczema and psoriasis. Skin ulcers and other sores may also heal more quickly when treated with burdock.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/28627-burdock-root-uses/#ixzz1sIe7Wkyx

So it seems to be quite powerfull, and I was wondering if someone (thinking of george, who has tried almost everything) has ever heard of its use for Peyronies Disease.
On the otherhand, do you think that burdock supplementation (i.e. Puritans Pride or others), would be less effective as fresh roots?????

Luc

George999

I have a bottle of it from Swanson.  I thought interesting and decided to try it.  The result was that it seemed to cause my neuropathy to flare up, so I discontinued it after a few pills.  But I really didn't take anywhere near enough of it to test it against Peyronie's.  Its dirt cheap, so it would not be huge investment for someone to give it a try.  Its a very interesting herb, for sure.  So hopefully someone will give it a shot and let us all know how things turn out.  - George

Hawk

Man I have no clue but I do know there is a ton of it sprouting behind my property.  I been trying to kill it off for the last several years.  I t would be poetic justice if all that time I was waging a personal battle against it that had the potential to be a godsend for Peyronies Disease.  :o
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Luciano

LOL Hawk...
But wait.. the guy that wrote that post, could have had spontanious healing.. without knowing.
But I will try it also.. to bad I dont have any in my garden...

Luc

BentYoung

I am going to purchase an extract with alcohol added in a dropper and give it a whirl. I will stay consistent and report anything notable.  

james1947

Hawk
You can bottle it and make a good business.

Luciano
We can make a night ride behind Hawk property

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Luciano

Quote from: james1947 on April 17, 2012, 05:52:03 PM
Hawk
You can bottle it and make a good business.

Luciano
We can make a night ride behind Hawk property

James
Hey suppose it works.. he will be protecting it with a shotgun.. lol

swolf

Quote from: james1947 on April 17, 2012, 05:52:03 PM
We can make a night ride behind Hawk property

That made me laugh out loud...

Anyway, burdock root is good for stimulating and detoxifying the liver, and my acupuncturist was (at least at one point, I don't remember exactly) working on stimulating the 'liver channel' in my body, which affects a lot of the groin area. You can easily buy burdock tea in many health food stores (or online if that's not available, easiest link here: http://www.amazon.com/Alvita-Burdock-Root-Tea-Bags/dp/B00188YH8Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334718549&sr=8-1 - don't know about outside the U.S.), and it is a staple of Japanese cuisine, so you might can find it wherever that is available. I saw pickled burdock refrigerated in a vacuum sealed bag in a Japanese grocery store recently.

You can also get all forms of the root (dried, extracts, etc) here: http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/search/search.php?refine=y&keywords=burdock&x=0&y=0

james1947

Swolf

Thanks for the sources. I suppose I can find it here in the Far East, just have to find the local name.
An other root that is very popular here is ginger (read and yellow) that the local are sure it cures everything (almost)

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Luciano

I dont want to cut your enthousiasm guys...
It may work for some, may not - I dont know.
But if that happened to me i.e.
From 60 to 15 degrees in 6 months.. I wouldn't be posting in forums and sitting there waiting until the flowers grow...
I'd be trying to get hold of more of the stuff.. and I'd be really motivated so I assume I'd be getting some within a week.
So thats strange..

But also.. I agree its worth a try..
Luc

Hawk

Well you learn something every day as the saying goes.  I never even knew it was edible.  I just hate it because it would take hours to get the burdock spurs (dried seed pod) tangles out of my long haired dogs coat, especially the ears.  This LINK has little Peyronies Disease value but is interesting, along with a video link. http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/Plants.Folder/Burdock.html

I guess if we pass old men digging up burdock in empty lots we can stop and introduce ourselves with our forum names because the likelihood is they are members here.  ;D
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

George999

Just yesterday evening I was shopping in our local grocery store and they have piles of (dried whole) burdock root stashed right next to piles of ginger root and turmeric root, so it must be pretty popular.  - George

Luciano

Yes, seen the dried ones also here. But getting the juice out of the dried stuff seems difficult.
I did some reading, and they say harvest season is september for the 1 year old plants and march/april is for the 2 year old (they only get 2 years old)
So just now is the season.
I also checked local markets, and on saturdays there are a lot of biological farmers  that sell their stuff here.
It seems that some have also burdock roots. I will certainly be there this saturday and check what I can get.

As it seems to be a japanese speciality, some japanese shop sell them over the internet in vaccum packs.
Or you can buy them fresh here at $9 the pound.
http://www.boxedgreens.com/shop/product.php?productid=17849&cat=0&page=1

But if we want to save money we could also make grouped order from china
http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/fresh-burdock-root.html
its the best offer i could find:
Quotefresh burdock root

Min. Order: 25 Metric Tons FOB Price: US $500-1000 / Metric Ton


james1947

I try to translate Burdock to Indonesian with no results. Maybe someone can post a picture of the root?
If I have picture, I may be able to find it.

Thanks
James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Luciano

well james, these pics are from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctium_lappa
in japanese its called gobo
here is a pic of the gobo root (its the same thing)
http://japanesefooddictionary.blogspot.com/2011/07/gobo.html

if you want pics of the plant try here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Arctium+lappa&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=yDJ&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=rzaPT-qSL8nY4ATLq5TGBQ&ved=0CDsQsAQ&biw=1596&bih=952

hope the link works, if not, do a google search for: Arctium Lappa and click on images in the left menu.
Luc

swolf

Quote from: james1947 on April 18, 2012, 04:05:23 PM
I try to translate Burdock to Indonesian with no results.

If you go to an article on Wikipedia you can look at the 'Language' sidebar on the left to see a list of the article translated into other languages. It doesn't look like there's an Indonesian article. If you have any Vietnamese friends, ask them what "Chi Ngưu bảng" is.

james1947

Thanks for the info. I have downloaded some pictures and I am going to begin my search

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

james1947

Indonesian don't have on the side bar for burdock, but Romanian have.
I try will google translate from English and Romanian to Indonesian and come out Burdock because the translate software don't have Indonesian name for Burdock. In Romanian the name is Arctium. Have also popular name, but I forget.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Povera me

Hi, has anyone continued to use Burdock root? I am curious because an article I found on the Internet statest that Burdock can interfere with anit-inflammation medications. Curious, it didn't say it stopped inflammation, as in the cancer study listed below, just that it intefered with the medication for inflammation. http://www.all4naturalhealth.com/side-effects-of-burdock-root.html

Luciano

Quote from: Povera me on May 20, 2012, 06:11:01 PM
Hi, has anyone continued to use Burdock root? I am curious because an article I found on the Internet statest that Burdock can interfere with anit-inflammation medications.

I am taking 3x3 caps a day.. (but only started 2 weeks ago)
http://www.puritan.com/herb-products-a-to-e-034/burdock-root-425-mg-003541?scid=6648&cm_mmc=NexTag-_-Herb%20Products%20%28A%20to%20E%29-_-burdock-root-425-mg-_-003541
its very cheep. 600 caps $20
no effect yet..

As to the studies, everything is relative.
Let me give you an example. My grandmother discovered the benefits of carrot juice when I was a kid. So I got 1 glas a day (vitamin A etc..)
Now as she had the juice machine, and carrots were cheap, she drank herself 3 big glasses every day. After 3 months, her skin turned orange, and the doctor said .. it came from the carrot juice.
Its like every supplement. If you over do it, it can and will be harmfull.

Luc

As for burdock, if nothing changes within 3 months I will lower the dose.
The 3x3 caps comes from what is written on the package. i.e maximum dose considered as safe. (in the net it says between 2 and 4 grams a day.. and i take 9 with 425mg each (9x 425=3825 mg)

Luciano

Finished the first 100 caps.. no change yet  :-\

Eugis

Quote from: Luciano on June 01, 2012, 02:13:40 AM
Finished the first 100 caps.. no change yet  :-\
I have some improvement after starting 1 month ago juice of root burdock and putting a fresh leaf of burdock on the penis. I feel decrease of pain after ejaculation and during an erection
Eugis

Luciano

Quote from: Eugis on June 02, 2012, 01:24:54 PM
I have some improvement after starting 1 month ago juice of root burdock and putting a fresh leaf of burdock on the penis. I feel decrease of pain after ejaculation and during an erection
Eugis
Fresh burdock root juice? you made it yourself?
Luc

Eugis

Quote from: Luciano on June 02, 2012, 01:48:46 PM
Fresh burdock root juice? you made it yourself?
Luc
No,it is concentrated juice, I buy it in the bottles for 75ml. It is expensive certainly for me .I am taking it now  3 times a day 1 tea spoon of juice with 100 ml water. Trial is contining
Eugis

goodluck

according to a book I have on Herbs Burdock is used as a blood purifier and anti-inflamatory.  It is high in inulin which is important in the metabolism of carbohydrates.  It can break down calcium deposites and is good for the kidneys.

Interestingly it contains PABA.

I can see how it may help.

Keep us posted on your progress.  Fresh herbs are always more powerfull than old ones.  Burdock is pretty prolific in parks and fields in the north east.  you could get some fresh leaves every day.

Luciano

Quote from: goodluck on June 05, 2012, 05:19:25 PM
you could get some fresh leaves every day.
Well its the root, not the leaves.
well actually i dont know.
the report i heard was about root. but maybe the leaves also help.
wondering what your book says...
Luc

Eugis

As I wrote early I am using root and leaves, Root from 27 of April, leaves from 27 of May. I will return in month and inform you about results
Eugis

Luciano

Quote from: Eugis on June 07, 2012, 07:27:53 AM
As I wrote early I am using root and leaves, Root from 27 of April, leaves from 27 of May. I will return in month and inform you about results
Eugis
Thanks Eugis
very appreciated!

When I said i only heard of root, I meant the russian guy in the german forums, i talked about in first post.

goodluck

I have just read that the herb Solomon Seal can break down calcium deposits.  You can get it in an infused oil.  Usually it is infused in olive oil.

It is not expensive and may be worth adding to the burdock.  It is also know to heal ligament sprains and muscle/tendon tears.
Worth having around the house for that alone.

cbijk

Never heard of Solomon Seal but that sounds interesting I'll have to look it up. I've heard Burdock root also helps with strengthening the veins and can help those with erections with soft glans. I tried the dried root pieces brewed as a tea for only a short period but not long enough to come to any real conclusion. I might try it again and see if it helps the soft glans.  

goodluck

I have just started a few weeks ago applying Burdock from an alcohol tincture on topically.  I use 4 or 5 drops and spread it around .  The alcohol is a decent carrier.  I then apply the Solomon Seal oil liberally.  Too early to expect anything but I will report back again.

I have been doing oral treatments of Ubiquiol, vinpocentine, and A-L-C. Been doing so for months.

Finally I have be doing 15 min. of VED therapy. Not every day but close.

goodluck

Here is my 1 month update.

My erections seem stronger and fuller in the healthy regions.  But not any noticeable improvement to the hourglassing.
I will continue on with the topical application of burdock and solomon seal oil.  In theory it should break up any calcification, stengthen blood vessels and improve blood flow.

These are not expensive and available at a good health food store or from an herbalist.

james1947

goodluck

Thank you for the update. It sounds like any other Peyronies treatments it takes time.
Waiting for your next update.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

ashtown

While doing some research on burdock, which I am interested in trying I found this medical study, which I thought may be of interest. Among other things burdock may also be raising testosterone levels, which could well be a useful element. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22296876
Dec 2013 - Replaced all prescribed medicines with plenty of fresh vegetables, sleep and exercise

james1947

ashtown

You may give it a try if you have the money to spend on it (I have spent also on other things that helped like snake oil ;D :()
Anyhow, I suppose if goodluck was having good results he was updating us, last update was August 2012. He was last active on August this year but we didn't got update from him :)

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

corvette2010

I've been drinking a glass of Burdock Root Tea a few times a week and it has cured (well kept it dormant) the eczema on my hands that pops up every summer. Didn't realize it could be helping with Peyronies also. I bought mine from here: Buy Burdock Root Tea

ashtown

I only discovered the burdock connection by accident when looking for information on ginger, which I've been eating now for a couple of weeks and it appears to be more useful than everything else I've tried put together.

All I've been doing is buying a few dollars worth of raw ginger in the supermarket every week and I then cut off a section about an inch long, which is peeled to remove the outer skin. I then cut the main part into strips before adding to hot water using a ginger tea bag but no sugar. Leave it for about 15 minutes to properly infuse.

I do this three times a day and within a few days of starting saw a very evident improvement with a far more natural softer overall feel including the worst affected areas of scarring. This softer feel lasts for much longer periods during the day and any negative reactions tend to be much shorter lived as well.

The taste of the raw ginger is quite spicy and sharp when chewed but perfectly manageable if followed by a sip of tea or water. Negative side effects also seem much less likely than certain prescription drugs and it's generally considered a very useful spice for healing. For anybody interested this link provides an overview of ginger Discovery Health "Ginger: A Profile of an Alternative Medicine"

Getting back to the subject of burdock I ordered some yesterday from Amazon and I'm looking forward to giving it a go.  
Dec 2013 - Replaced all prescribed medicines with plenty of fresh vegetables, sleep and exercise

goodluck

I saw the post and thought I should update.

OK here is my update, later than I would have liked.  I have not seem much progress.  I should add I have not been using the ved much( less than 2x a month) in the past 10 mo. due to circumstantial reasons.  I think this is probably the largest reason for poor progress.

I have switch to a burdock tea vs. topical months ago in order to get the full benefits of it for the liver and digestive system.   As ashtown noted it helped with his eczema and that is because it helps the liver work better.  The liver filters out toxins and sends it in to the bile to be eliminated.  If wastes are not eliminated properly they will exit through the skin causing skin issues, like eczema. In tea form is also a good pre-biotic helping your good intestinal bacteria thrive.  If you drink too much it can have a slight laxative effect.
As far as strengthening blood vessels I can not say for sure if it did for me but I will note I have not experienced any bruising from the VED in the last year.
I think Burdock root tea is a good idea for general health for most any adult in a stressful job or life.  Peyronies is stressful.



ashtown

My curvature has dropped from around 75 degrees to roughly 30 degrees over the last 2 months. This has happened after I started eating industrial quantities of ginger, however I also started with burdock and L-Glutamine within a couple weeks of starting on the ginger. The hour glass effect is also much reduced.

I can't be 100% sure what is helping here but I intend to keep going with the same mix and increase the burdock to see if it helps. The irony for me is that I only started to make some progress after stopping with all the treatments prescribed by the urologist. As always though with Peyronies Disease I take nothing for granted and remain careful with my diet.

Dec 2013 - Replaced all prescribed medicines with plenty of fresh vegetables, sleep and exercise

Mentos

 The irony for me is that I only started to make some progress after stopping with all the treatments prescribed by the urologist.
[/quote]

congrats !

ashtown

It's a step in the right direction for sure Mentos but still a long way to go and Peyronies is always an unpredictable beast. My one golden rule now is to avoid physical damage like I experienced with the urologist and the VED. I avoid inflammatory foods, try to get enough sleep and exercise regularly.  
Dec 2013 - Replaced all prescribed medicines with plenty of fresh vegetables, sleep and exercise

james1947

Happy to hear that Ashtown :) Reduction from 75 to 30 in two months is amazing :)
With small additional improvement you are back to normal!!!
Wish you continue with the improvement and thanks for the update.

James  
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

ashtown

I think I'll only count this as being totally back to normal when the curvature has completely gone and it's no longer prone to pain & inflammation with even minimal handling or simply eating the wrong food. It's definitely better than it was a couple months ago but I'm fully aware that it doesn't take much to make matters worse.

These days I try to do everything possible to avoid inflammation and I've found that when I'm unsuccessful for whatever reason there is no improvement or it even gets a little worse but if I can really keep things under control over a week or two then the curvature will suddenly drop by a good amount. In no small part I think the ginger is really helping here and whenever possible I try to eat it slowly throughout the day.

I told Gnarly about my improvements after using ginger, so he tried it as well and came back a couple weeks later saying how it had got rid of his last bit of curvature in less than a week, which had been stubbornly resistant before that. The great thing about ginger is that it's cheap, you can pick it up at the supermarket and there are no side effects. No wonder we've never seen a study done on ginger for Peyronies...

I forgot to add that I ordered more burdock today as well  :)  
Dec 2013 - Replaced all prescribed medicines with plenty of fresh vegetables, sleep and exercise

Coffeewithcinnamon

Quote from: ashtown on November 17, 2013, 03:21:19 PM
My curvature has dropped from around 75 degrees to roughly 30 degrees over the last 2 months. This has happened after I started eating industrial quantities of ginger


Ashtown, how do you get that ginger down?  After slicing a couple of pieces, it's flavor is strong to the bite.  Agggh!!!


ashtown

The trick is to cut it into very small sizes and have a glass of water nearby to deaden the strong flavour. I have to say though that with practice I've found it much easier to handle, so it's just something you get used to. I try to eat it consistently and slowly throughout the day for best results.

When I do this with a cup of ginger tea I cut around 3 inches of the root into small pieces. Over a week I'm going through roughly a kilo of ginger like this and it's not exactly something I enjoy but on balance I'd less it's less unpleasant than feelings of nausea and anxiety from Pentox.



Dec 2013 - Replaced all prescribed medicines with plenty of fresh vegetables, sleep and exercise

Coffeewithcinnamon


ashtown

I haven't been as consistent as before with the ginger and the reductions in curvature have basically stalled, which suggests the ginger was genuinely helping so I shall get back to it like before. More positively I have seen a reduction in hour glass narrowing and I've recently found avocado very effective at reducing inflammation. I've been juicing a lot of vegetables over the last 6 weeks and I'm hoping that will soon start to make a difference as well.

As good as some of these things are for reducing inflammation it still only takes a couple of very light squeezes for pain and inflammation to emerge so I'm still battling with the underlying condition. As long as I leave it well alone though and concentrate on an anti-inflammatory diet it feels pretty normal when flaccid with no hard spots so I don't think any part has calcified yet after 18 months. When I do get inflammation it's still primarily at the base but tends to cover a smaller area than before so I think I'm winning but it's very slow going and I have to be really careful.

EDIT: Something else I should add is that I've been been under an awful lot of stress in recent months which certainly isn't helping my recovery. I'm continuing with the burdock in capsule form but I don't get the impression it's making much difference. Perhaps natural burdock would achieve more.  
Dec 2013 - Replaced all prescribed medicines with plenty of fresh vegetables, sleep and exercise

NeoV

Hate to bring up an old thread, but being in Japan, I have access to cheap burdock root and burdock tea! I love it in "kinpira," which is thinly sliced carrot and burdock cooked in sesame oil.

Anyway, there was a study a few years ago that shows that burdock beat viagra in giving rats harder erections and higher sex drives. It's now showing up in some test boosters since in the study it boosted the rat's testosterone by over 120%.

I expect little, but at the same time, I notice very strong effects of every damn thing I take even if the science doesn't show a real consensus.

I'm drinking a liter of burdock root and a liter of barley tea a day. Both lower blood sugar and barley tea thins out the blood and was shown in one odd study to raise testosterone by almost 50%. They are both extremely healthy in general and the barley tea tastes just fantastic.

QuackAttack

Barley is not a good choice for people with a gluten intolerance. I glutened myself today in a moment of weakness (carrot cake and peer pressure) and I payed for it an hour later, but burdock root might be interesting if it can be found at specialty stores.