Erectile Dysfunction

[Hawk]

I got a bit of blue haze with my first Viagra.  It never happened again.  I do get a bit of a stuffy nose.  Stuffy nose is caused by blood flow in the nasal membranes.  Interestingly, most things that kill a stuffy nose, also kill erections (Sudafed, Neosynephrine)

Cialis does less for me in the erection department and leaves me with a nagging lower backache about 3 days after I take it.  Delayed onset backache is a listed side effect.  I don't know if it is caused by kidney pain or what, but I got it 4 out of 4 times.  That was enough for me.

[steven]

I've taken viagra but never cialis, with Viagra I get the blue haze, anxious feeling and stuffy nose, not really too romantic, actually I feel like a little like an alien  , with the stuffy nose, permanent wood and everything in a blue haze.  On a serious note, do you get those symptoms with cialis?  Or do you get those symtoms in the first few hours and then they subside.  The feeling are pretty intense with me with viagra and I can't imgaine have them for 36 hours.  Thanks

Steven

[SteveW]

I too, am a faithful Cialis fan.  It's there when you need it...for a nice 24 or so hour period of time.  It's reassuring to have a dependable erection, regardless of the bend...or diminished size I am left with. 

[valetguy]

cialis takes care of my erection problems quite well.

[Old Forum]

bob    Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005     4:59 pm   

Well, yeah, that's the problem...it's just hanging! Don't apologize for humor - that promises to be one of the best things about this forum. I appreciate all the info you shared. It must have been like night and day, having such a drastic change in your life. In comparison, I'd say mine has somewhat petered out gradually... although it's been much more so since Peyronies Disease. I never thought of myself as much of a sexual dynamo, but I too remember long-lasting erections and a couple of multi-orgasmic episodes from my not-so youth (I'm thinking I was about 36? 37?) God, I miss that. I have to resolve to talk with my wife about this more...

In the early days of our marriage we worked on having kids in a big way. In our case, it took six years. Yes, I did have ED on a couple of occasions: I remember being assigned responsibility for reading the thermometer for a time, after which I'd given a green light (or not). Then there was the alternate-day method. We chose not to use fertility drugs or undergo in vitro. It was like: "Ok, now it's time to start, so START!"

My sister in law has triplets, and we think Clomid was the cause. Then when we finally became parents we had this tiny infant who had to nurse every hour and would never stay asleep. Around her first birthday, she finally WOULD sleep through the night... but it was usually in our bed. Then when we finally thought we had the parenthood thing figured out, I neglected to pack a box of Naturalambs on a family vacation to Sesame Place. My wife learned she was pregnant in a matter of weeks, and her friends insisted we name him Elmo if he was a boy...and nine months later the protracted ritual of breastfeeding started all over again. (And my wife is a believer in doing in for several years, as opposed to months.)

OK, you've all probably been there and done that. I just thought I'd share some of my past and present issues (and, hopefully, inspire a few laughs w/o totally hijacking the subject of this thread.)

[Old Forum]

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:05 pm   

bob:
,it seems as if many take Viagra and other medications on a regular basis... for therapeutic purposes... regardless of what one plans to do for the night. Is that experimental, or do some physicians advise doing that?

Dr. Mulhall and many other doctors recommend it. I have taken 1/3 of a 100mg Viagra every night I did not use an ED injection of bimix. I will tell you though Bob, the tiny dose of trazodone works better for me at this stage than anything to keep nocturnal erections going. I will have more to report on this soon.

I wonder if Joshua has a trazodone report?

Also Bob, this is pretty personal but I never had a second of ED for 54 years. In fact, I could maintain an erection long after orgasm and could have more than one orgasm from an erection I think this is rare. I went to sleep in an operating room realizing how my life may change. A compassionate nurse (whose name I did not get) saw a tear in the corner of my eye and came to hold my hand. God, how I appreciated that short act of compassion. I will forever be able to see her in my mind. I awoke from prostate surgery to ZERO erections for 4 months, for the next 8 months only when I injected bimix. Sex would feel great, your mind told you must have a huge erection, but I looked down and could not even relate, that what I saw, could be my body. It was so distracting and non-erotic that I had to focus on my wife and forget me. I felt like some women must that take a while to warm up and get into it. It took a while to get past the distraction. I had such bad ED that I could start out at a 1 (from temperature or whatever) and shrink to coldwater status in the midst of stimulation. That was with a whole Viagra.

The progress has been slow, and then the Peyronies Disease hit me. I too avoided sex because it made me face what was no more. Sex always started with overwhelming psychological pain from the sense of loss. I had to battle past that to even get to the pleasure part. I learned to forget about my body and focus on hers.

Now there is some ED improvement with night time erections and weak Viagra erections on a whole tablet. My Peyronies Disease is manageable at this stage. I actually prefer less than a rock hard erection because the curve is more manageable.

Bob, sometimes I think, what if Ihad been paralyzed for years and someone told me they could restore everything but the nerves to my penis. How thankful would I be? How elated? While we are fighting back, we have to focus on what we do have . We can’t let one unfortunate condition rob us of the enjoyment of what we do have. You know, It only takes one more diagnoses to make us wish we were back to having everything that we now regret having.

I don't share this because I think you don't know it Bob, I'm just muttering out loud.

Hang in there. (No pun intended ) 

[Old Forum]

bob      Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005      2:14 pm   

Thanks, Old Man. I do intend to ask for a VED prescription. First O need tp get the lowdown on how successful... or not... my verapamil injection treatment was. I have to go back on Oct. 11 for a reassessment.

What got me thinking was Hawkman's use of the term "stuffable erection" earlier in the discussion thread. I kind of think most of mine are what you would call a "stuffable erection," as opposed to the self-guided missile variety. (Sorry for the analogy, but it kind of works, doesn't it?) I was also interested in finding out what other guys do. I mean,it seems as if many take Viagra and other medications on a regular basis... for therapeutic purposes... regardless of what one plans to do for the night. Is that experimental, or do some physicians advise doing that?

[Old Forum]

Old Man     Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005       12:56 pm   


Bob:
Yes, in a way it is a common thing for men to lose some of their libido as they age. Others go on into very late life and still have the required amount to perform. In my experience with working with a lot of men in the men's health field, that has been the case. Talk to one guy and he has no problem with ability to perform. Talk to another one and he will state that problem existed since about 45 or older. Some guys begin to lose their ability in their 50s, others 60s and so on down the age line.

So, when this develops, one must look for alternative ways to "get it up" and be able to perform. In my case, I was about 55 when my noticed that I was slipping in the ability world. I started using a so called "cock ring" to be able to hold one long enough for satisfactory performance.

After prostate cancer surgery left me totally impotent and the penile injections gave me more Peyronies Disease symptoms, Viagra and the other ED drugs did nothing for me, I started using the VED. This one thing proved to be what gave me back my ability to perform as I once did.

Not saying that this method will work for all, but it did for me. You might want to try it to see if it will work for you.

Old Man

[Old Forum]

bob        Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005       10:05 am   

Maybe I've been in kind of a daze, or maybe this has crept up on me for a long time. I have always thought of ED as something along the lines of "can't get it up when it's required." Lately, however, I've noticed that it's more along the lines of "just don't get it up that much, period."

Does that make sense? I'm 49 and I can remember a time - not at all long ago - when erections were powerful, frequent... and needed relief. Rueful to admit, that just doesn't happen 

I rarely find that I wake with one, whether it's in the middle of the night, in the morning, thinking about or watching something sexy, etc.

In my early days of Peyronies Disease I found that I withdrew somewhat sexually from my wife, in part because I found any manipulation of my penis to be painful. I also didn't like to remind myself of what I once had. Problem is, now that the pain is gone I find my desire level to be lower.

Your thoughts? Is this a common thing?
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[Old Forum]

[bJoshua, global Moderator      ]Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005     8:04 pm  [/b]


Hawkman:
She has 100mg. I will quarter it. I am going to try one tonight. I don’t have ed problems but I would welcome a 10 on the erection meter anytime!
I think strong erections help break/stretch plaque. I still have one piece that refuse to go away.

[Old Forum]

Joshua, global Moderator     Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005     7:59 pm   

Urol. 1991 Jan;145(1):60-4. Related Articles, Links


Pathophysiology of prolonged penile erection associated with trazodone use.

Saenz de Tejada I, Ware JC, Blanco R, Pittard JT, Nadig PW, Azadzoi KM, Krane RJ, Goldstein I.

Department of Urology, Boston University Medical Center, Massachusetts.

Treatment with the antidepressant trazodone has been associated with the occurrence of prolonged penile erection and priapism. To evaluate the effect of trazodone on erection we monitored the periodic physiological sleep-related erections in 6 healthy volunteers in a double-blind crossover study comparing the effect of trazodone, trimipramine (a tricyclic antidepressant) and placebo. In addition, to determine the effects of trazodone on the neurovascular control of penile smooth muscle we performed in vitro studies on corpus cavernosum tissue obtained from patients undergoing penile prosthesis implantation. Trazodone significantly increased the total interval of nocturnal erectile activity, while trimipramine had no effect. During the high dose treatment (nights 4 and 5) the average duration of erectile activity per night with placebo was 158 +/- 41 minutes (mean +/- standard deviation) for night 4 and 177 +/- 21 minutes for night 5. During trazodone treatment the erectile activity per night was significantly prolonged to 285 +/- 115 minutes during night 4 and 232 +/- 86 during night 5 (p less than 0.01). Analysis of the erectile activity in relation to the rapid eye movement sleep period during which erectile activity usually occurs revealed that the detumescence phase of erection, under sympathetic control, was significantly prolonged an average of 2.4 times by trazodone compared to placebo (p less than 0.05). In vitro, trazodone at concentrations comparable to those reached in plasma significantly impaired corporeal smooth muscle contractions elicited by electrical stimulation of adrenergic nerves and antagonized contractions induced by exogenous norepinephrine. We conclude that trazodone can enhance penile erection in man and propose a mechanism related to the alpha-adrenoceptor blocking properties of trazodone by interference with the sympathetic control of penile detumescence.

[Old Forum]

Hawk, Administrator    Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005    7:47 pm   

Joshua:
My wife has an unused bottle of trazodone. She got it for post partum depression but never used it. I have been looking at that bottle ever since reading your interesting post.
I will likely try one 100mg for the hell of it and report back…

Joshua, I take 25 mg. thats all it takes. Hell you will sleep through any response you have. Also, take it with food. it absorbs better.

[Old Forum]

[bJoshua, Global moderator     ]Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005      7:36 pm  [/b]

My wife has an unused bottle of trazodone. She got it for post partum depression but never used it. I have been looking at that bottle ever since reading your interesting post.
I will likely try one 100mg for the hell of it and report back…

[Old Forum]

Hawk, Administrator    Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005      5:59 pm   

I have to report that this does not require any further evaluation for the side effect of erection with this patient.

A 3 cent dose caused me to wake with possibly a 10 on the erection scale (different than the rector scale). This probably exceeds any erection in 15 1/2 months since surgery including those from injections. Unlike my typical 5's or 6's a few times a week, this remained for several minutes after waking. I am now interested in what it does if taken earlier in the day. Why would this not result in a Viagra type effect? Are some people more susceptible to this side effect than others? Again, I take 25 mg. What are people that take 400 mg experiencing? Why don't more people know about this?

Short of the fact that I have moderate Peyronies Disease, I have never had a better erection. Significant when considering I never had a single ED moment in my life prior to surgery.

[Old Forum]

Old Man        Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005    10:16 am   


Bob:

This is what all the uros in urology group tell me. Anything that helps a person with depression has a tendancy to lower blood pressure especially if one already is taking some heart meds. Have no clinical proof of this, but just what the docs tell us in our cancer support group meetings. Since most of the radical prostatectomy guys present also are of an advanced age, they suffer from most of the "old people's" disorders, etc. As one gets older and on into their 70s and 80s, lose their mate, have all the known problems of the aged, and live alone do get very depressed.

Depression takes on many and varied facets and every person suffers from different symptoms. One of my sister's who lived in an assisted home had maniac depression for years before her death took many antidepressant drugs and her blood pressure stayed well below normal all the time. So, go figure, who knows?

Old Man

[Old Forum]

bob          Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005       8:46 am   

Thanks for the clarification, and there have been a number of occasions when my wife has needed to "stuff" me - all since the onset of my Peyronies Disease. It was actually Pat in Dr. Mulhall's office who delicately informed me that my drug-induced erection was less than optimal. This was after that god-awful injection they give you to make you hard for a sonogram. (And this was even after the two shots I needed. Pat was going to give me a third, but Dr. M said my erection was workable for the purposes of the sonogram.)

I read with interest Old Man's post regarding the fact that antidepressants lower blood pressure. By reverse logic, does that mean depression can cause your blood pressure to go up? Just wondering.

[Old Forum]

Hawk, Administrator   Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005      12:47 pm    

bob:
What is a "stuffable" erection and how is it unsuitable?

Bob

A stuffable erection is one rigid enough to stuff in but it really is not suitable for hands free intercourse. This is probably not a strict medical term
ED doctors usual measure erections on a scale of 1 to 10 with 6 being suitable for normal intercourse and 10 being the best erection you ever had at any age. Stuffable would be at a 5.

In response to Bob and Old Man, I am convinced from research, personal experience, and doctor recommendations that getting blood flow to the tissues regularly during the first 18 to 24 months post prostatectomy is critical in regrowing damaged nerves and maintaining healthy erectile tissue. Nature tries to keep us functional with NTE several times during every sleep cycle. These erections pull oxygen rich blood to the penis and the entire prostate capsule area where the unseen part of the penis is hidden from view. This is the area where the nerves controlling blood flow get damaged during a prostatectomy.

My personal view is that Viagra is extremely safe for anyone without heart or high blood pressure problems.

As far as trazodone (Desylrel) is concerned , I am taking it at less than half of a minimum dose a prescribed for depression.. I do have some low grade depression on some days but it is very manageable. I am not taking trazodone for depression but for the side effect of nocturnal erections to keep the blood flowing in order to obviate the need for ED injections.

My preliminary repot based on 1/2 of a tablet on one night, is that I had more NTE's last night then any time since my prostatectomy surgery. My evaluation may be skewed because I have been working on the web site very late and I am too tired to make an assessment when I am in a fog in the middle of the night.

IF trazodone does continue giving me night time erections for one dollar and eight cents a month, I see no significant risk issues. Normal dosage ranges from 75 to 400 mg per day. I take 25 mg per day right before bedtime.

Last night's dose was the best 3 cents I ever spent  

Now to give credit where credit is due. Kid from the APDA shared the trazodone information with me a couple months ago. I have never heard or read it any place else. I think anyone that knows Kid will vouch, that when it comes to Peyronies Disease experts outside of the medical field, he probably has few superiors. Based on his information, i approached my Family Doctor who is a GREAT doctor.
He prescribed a less than minimal dose for 1 month.

[Old Forum]

Old Man        Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005       11:35 am   


Bob:
Hawkman:

Read your posts with great interest. I too went through the depressed stages during my 20s when Peyronies Disease first hit. My family doctor who was a first cousin told me that using drugs like that would cause me more problems especially later in life. So, I refused to take them when more than one doctor highly recommended them.
Of course, they have their place in true deep depressive patients, but if one can stay away from them, the better off they will be, etc.

Also, most of these drugs have very bad sexual side effects. The main one being that they lower the blood pressure and that in turn prevents a good natural erection. After my prostate cancer left me totally impotent, I used Viagra 100 mg tablets which gave me prolonged erections and I had to use antihistimine type drugs to relieve them so as to not caust priapism. These drugs are sometimes used for depression. I soon learned to leave them off as it precluded erections for quite a number of days.

The above is furnished only as what happened in my case. What happens for others is based on their physical situation.

Old Man

[Old Forum]

bob        Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005      8:30 am   

Hawk,

I had a major depressive episode in 1989 after my girlfriend broke up with me... right after sex. But that's another story for another day!

I became a zombie from not sleeping properly for three months. I read up like crazy on tranquilizers and antidepressants. I was like a zombie after not sleeping properly for months. I remember trazodone was the first of a new class of drugs at the time - this was before Prozac and all the others. There were some wierd side effects listed for it, one of which was something called "retrogade ejaculation."

It sounded like something to steer clear of.

My MD went through a bunch of different meds and the one that finally gave me rest was Elavil.

What is a "stuffable" erection and how is it usuitable?

Bob

[Old Forum]

Hawk, Administrator    Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005     10:30 pm   

I have covered my dilemma with needing to induce erection in the 24 months after prostate surgery to induce nerve growth and maintain healthy penile tissue. For the first 12 months 100 mg Viagra did NOTHING for me. Now (15 months post op) Viagra gets me sooooooo close to a usable erection. In fact, it is slightly better than a stuffable erection. I started getting night-time erections (NTE) at about 12 months but very sporadic unless I was sleeping through them, and I was so aware I would check in my sleep.

Strangely my Night Time Erections (NTE) with no Viagra are as good as my 100 mg Viagra erections. Also strangely, if I awake with one it dies with in 2 minutes of waking up. My only explanation is anxiety based adrenalin kicking in, but that is difficult to accept..

I take 33 mg (1/3 tab) of Viagra nightly, not for erections but because Dr. Mulhall and others say it stimulates nerve growth. Well the dilemma is that I quit the magic bimix injections that I think caused my Peyronies Disease. So, I have to figure out how to get 3 intercourse-quality erections per week for nerve growth. Due to cost and other concerns 33 mg of Viagra 6 nights a week and 100 mg 1 night a week is all I care to take. Since NTE count as well, I just got my GP to prescribe Trazadone - (Desyrel) 25 mg per nite. It is an antidepressant / sleep aid. The smallest pill is 50mg so this is a low dose. I do have some mild depression but I am taking it for the side effect of prolonged, inappropriate or painful erection (priapism).

At this stage, I have no clue what an inappropriate erection would be. If I had one at church I would probably jump up and make an announcement. I have first hand information from a very knowledgeable source that this drug causes a lot of NTE activity thus obviating the need for the injections. The good part is the cost. This is a whopping $1.08 for a months supply.

I will keep you posted. I just took my first pill.

[Old Forum]

Joshua, Global Moderator   ]Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005    9:24 am 

Hawkman wrote:
I will post more on this later. For now I just say that Dr. Mulhall who is possibly the most identified name associated with Peyronies Disease treatment would disagree. In fact he specifically iinsisted that I continue to inject bimix into my penis 2 - 3 times per week for erections.

After careful consideration and research I made it clear I would not do that. My refusal was based more on the potential damage from the needle and the mixture itself than because I wanted to avoid erections.

Infact I take Viagra in an attempt to get as much of an erection as possible.

Hawk:
I agree after the inflamation phase. It is vital to have sex,erections,and keep the blood flow strong. That is what I think almost healed me. However, I think it makes good sense to refrain from sex during the painful inflamation stage. If your causing pain to your penis, something isn't right. My Dr told me to simply refrain until the pain was gone.

[Old Forum]

Hawk, Administrator    Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005      8:37 am   

I will post more on this later. For now I just say that Dr. Mulhall who is possibly the most identified name associated with Peyronies Disease treatment would disagree. In fact he specifically iinsisted that I continue to inject bimix into my penis 2 - 3 times per week for erections.

After careful consideration and research I made it clear I would not do that. My refusal was based more on the potential damage from the needle and the mixture itself than because I wanted to avoid erections.

Infact I take Viagra in an attempt to get as much of an erection as possible.

[Old Forum]

joshuaPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:12 am   

dcaptain wrote:

In the acute phase of Peyronies Disease, do you think it hurts or helps to have increased sexual activity? I can't tell if I'm doing more damage or helping the cause. I know this has come up before but I'd love to hear everyone's personal opinion.

Dcaptain:
This is a very good and a very smart question. I wish I would have thought about that question when I was in that phase. I have an opinion to share and my own Drs Opinion.

I think it is vital NOT to engage in intercourse/masturbation during the inflammation/acute phase of Peyronies Disease. I think it causes more damage. If I had it to do over and know what I now know about Peyronies Disease, I would avoid erections, use ice packs, and swallow ibuprofen all in the effort to keep the inflammation/damage to a bare minimum during this dangerous phase in Peyronies Disease.

My Dr made a great statement, “that if it hurts do NOT do it.” Pain is the body’s way to make you avoid something.

This is also where I disagree with Old Man about his VED use. I think the ved should not be used during this phase. He feels it is somewhat safe if done”safely”.

If you are going to have sex during this phase , please be very very careful. It seems like at this stage of Peyronies Disease any little sexual mishap will end in a brand new piece of plaque.

[Old Forum]

dcaptain          Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005        9:18 pm   

A question to get everyone's opinion:

In the acute phase of Peyronies Disease, do you think it hurts or helps to have increased sexual activity? I can't tell if I'm doing more damage or helping the cause. I know this has come up before but I'd love to hear everyone's personal opinion.

[Old Forum]

Hawk, Administrator       Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005        12:22 am  

I am not sure how well this is known in these circles but the general population of men associate erection and orgasm because the one always precedes the other in a healthy male. The fact is that there is no connection between the two. Any individual several weeks after prostate surgery will tell you that erection ability is likely to be zero. Orgasm however can be even more intense than it was pre-surgery.

I was stunned the first time I leaned that there is no connection. I was more stunned the first time I ever experienced it, not only is this a interesting fact, It illustrates that a sex life in some form, is almost always possible.

[Old Forum]

Hawk, Administrator     Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005               12:09 am   

I wonder if there is anyone without high blood pressure that gets decent erections that would like to waste one for an experiment? Since 4 red Sudafed kill an erection from bimix injections, it would be interesting to confirm that they interfere with an erection from any source. I am sure they do.

The experiment: Take 4 Sudafed on a fairly empty stomach. Wait 30 minutes and do whatever to obtain an erection. Note whether your erection quality is diminished. If your partner gets mad, tell her it was for science.

[Old Forum]

Joshua, Global Moderator        Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005       8:46 pm   

I strongly suggest:Large doses of L-arginine(alpha-ketoglutarate) I suggest 5 grams 2.5 mid afternoon and 2.5 one hour before sex

[Old Forum]

Hawk, Administrator      Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005      9:19 am   

Most men with high blood pressure know that 'nasal decongestants can raise blood pressure'. Most men that take Viagra know it can lower blood pressure, even dangerously so. This is one more example of how decongestants and drugs like Viagra work as antagonists to each other. I am surprised more on this is not dispensed to the public since this is information that all doctors accept as fact. An antidote for prolonged erection (priapism) is 4 Sudafed. If this fails to reduce a prolonged erection the next level of intervention is a neosynephrine injection into the cavernosa. Neosynephrine is a vaso suppressor. It actually works by activating the adrenalin receptors. Adrenalin receptors constrict the blood vessels. I am told that it works instantly. I know that sudafed works because I have had priapism and used sudafed intervention more than once.

This brings up another ED point. Adrenaline is a strong direct antagonist to an erection. You may have no anxiety about your understanding spouse of 40 years, and scoff at “performance anxiety”, but if you are anxious or stressed about whether your penis will be able to get erect, will it be more curved than before, will it be painful, or any such thing, your body can produce adrenalin as a result. The adrenalin activates these same receptors that cause an involuntary constriction of the blood vessels and your penis WILL shut down. Decongestants and adrenaline are two of the many things that you should try to avoid if you have ED problems. Unless you ask however, your doctor, even the good ones, are not likely to mention this. The final “Catch 22” is that the more you worry about producing adrenaline, the more you are likely to produce it.

[Hawk]

Causes, treatments, medications, and techniques associated with erectile dysfunction