ORAL TREATMENTS - GENERAL - Vitamins, Prescriptions , Herbs, Supplements

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Hawk

One idiots opinion:

I always took and still take vitimin E because of other benefits in reasonable doses, but I personally have no personal indication, and have seen no evidence it helps Peyronies Disease in the least.  

I have used natural vitimin E in its most active form in humans which is alpha-tocopheryl, as well as mixed tocopheryl (beta, gamma).  I usually take both types.  It is fairly cheap, has no known toxic side effects, and has some health benefits.  There is one recent study suggesting that doses of over 400IU over long periods, result in a higher death rate from many causes (heart, cancer, etc).  It is suggested that in large doses it could block other anti-oxidents, but the study is controversial and many consider it flawed.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

learn4life

Quote from: Hawk on December 02, 2005, 08:13:39 AM
One idiots opinion:

I always took and still take vitimin E because of other benefits in reasonable doses, but I personally have no personal indication, and have seen no evidence it helps Peyronies Disease in the least.  

I have used natural vitimin E in its most active form in humans which is alpha-tocopheryl, as well as mixed tocopheryl (beta, gamma).  I usually take both types.  It is fairly cheap, has no known toxic side effects, and has some health benefits.  There is one recent study suggesting that doses of over 400IU over long periods, result in a higher death rate from many causes (heart, cancer, etc).  It is suggested that in large doses it could block other anti-oxidents, but the study is controversial and many consider it flawed.

mmm ... Ok thanks ! Think im going to leave that one out for now unless someone
really has experienced good healing powers from Vit E.

Hey Hawk .... do you take Fish oil and Borage Oil ? I find taking them 3000mg split during the day and
also a daily massage ... say 15 mins or longer, it seems to help soften the penile scars.. Have you tried?

In a few sources it mentions it helps boost the Prostaglandin E1 .. what do you think?

Hawk

I have not taken fish oil or borage oil since I have had Peyronies Disease

I am interested in the source of the information about fish oil and Borage Oil  increasing Prostaglandin E1.  Can you give us a reference.  If that is true it could be very significant.  There are a multitude of prostaglandins and I need to refresh my memory to the role of E1.  

The "Oxygen / Collagen" post under "Reference Library" refers to an absence of Prostaglandin impacting collagen production and matrix.

Thanks for the info
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

soxfan


cdm

Hi guys,
           I was wondering if anyone has looked into using this stuff,it sounds promising,but so do most things at first.  www.cardiorenew.com

learn4life

Quote from: Hawk on December 02, 2005, 07:17:10 PM
I have not taken fish oil or borage oil since I have had Peyronies Disease

I am interested in the source of the information about fish oil and Borage Oil  increasing Prostaglandin E1.  Can you give us a reference.  If that is true it could be very significant.  There are a multitude of prostaglandins and I need to refresh my memory to the role of E1.  

The "Oxygen / Collagen" post under "Reference Library" refers to an absence of Prostaglandin impacting collagen production and matrix.

Thanks for the info



Ok. This is taking from a book I have bought from here :
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159800168X/qid=1133840369/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-3896453-5763901?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

I have taking bits out of it and not every word.

The Secret for a Perfectly Straight and Massive Penis-Prostaglandin E-1 (PGE-1)

Have you seen in your local Drug Store supplements called "Evening Primose Oil" or "Borage(Starflower Oil)

The effect on skin Elasticity is also Great.All these effects are due to gamma - linolenic acid(gla).it is essential for the
production of Pro E1 in the body, which regulates several functions.Its n1 benefit for the man is an increase in the
elasticity and stretching abilities of all nerves and blood vessels in your penile tissues.

Its role is to continuously increase the elasticity of the penile tissue and suppress the release of hardening colagen.

Your body will convert it into pro E1 which will help to preserve the elasticity and youthful condition of your entire skin for a long time.

You can apply on your penis gla rich oil during regular vip genital massages. this will supress the release of hardening colagen.


Second source: http://www.actionlove.com/cases/case13917.htm

A TON of infos here. I have been a patient of Dr.Lins for several years and he has helped me alot with Peyronies Disease.
His website has so much information that it would take many months to digest it all.

If anyone is wondering about his herbs ... It does what it says exactly on the website. I was taking
many different packages a day and about 4-6 pills a day but recently after doing a colon cleanse and liver flush I only require
1-2 a day. Anymore and it drives me wild !!

Colon cleanses helps to unblock the intestines which makes for better absorbing nutrients and cleaning out toxins and waste.
If your not having the same amount of Bowel movements a day as your having meals ... then I suggest you study the Colon and its cleanses.

If you have been a drinker or even been an unhealthy eater then I suggest looking into a liver flush. Im only 21 yet I flushed out many stones
from both of my liver flushes. I have always maintained a health lifestyle and once was an amatuer boxer yet because of my 2-3 year hell living, I had
those problems.

It is really strong stuff so please be careful before trying them.

I found with rubbing GLA + Vip cream, doubles the effects of Pro E1 production and it really does give it the elastic and normal look/feel.

Of course it is not always a guarantee it will cure Peyronies Disease completely as even Dr.Lin will tell you this if asked. This depends on the damage done.
Sometimes 90% is possible and sometimes only 50% is possible.

The bottom line is that in my experiences both Alan Ritz and Dr.Lins methods/advice has really helped with Peyronies Disease.
Not just Peyronies Disease though....

Erection angle
Stamina
Semen Quantity
Refractory time
Testostorone levels
Penile ejaculation control
Multiple orgasms before ejaculation

I suggest giving it a deep study and question everything before trying it.

Let me know what you think ....


Hawk

Learn4life, thanks for responding with the sources for that information, and especially your advice to "question everything before you try it" I have stumbled onto the Lin website before and after some careful examination I rejected it as a commercial enterprise with lots of claims and no clinical studies, double-blind trials, or objective proof.  

I require a pretty high level of convincing to layout money and effort.  There are literally tens of thousands of people competing for my money with amazing claims from making my kids grow taller, to a pill that only makes a woman lose weight in the exact places she "needs" to lose inches.

If we have the necessary "big three" of:
large
double-blind studies
providing objective, measurable results –

then we have reason to conclude a treatment is likely to help.  Even then, we may still have to be suspect of undiscovered or unreported side-effects, or results that are outside of the scope of the study; such as "long-term" etc.  As we remove any of these critical three, we have to raise our level of suspicion.

With smaller double-blind studies for instance, we have to suspect that the sampling is not large enough to factor for a few atypical responses during the study.  This can greatly skew the results and supply false conclusions.

With studies that are not blind we have a problem because the mind is such a powerful influence in evaluating results and actually changing the outcome.  We know for example that a hypnotist can lay a coin in the hand of a suggestive person and plant the suggestion that the coin is hot with the result of an actual blister forming.  With the mind having this level of control over physiological responses, any study that is not double-blind can easily, supply false data due to this placebo effect or researcher bias.

A study with no objective, measurable data, gives us nothing.  Many of us perceive we are somewhat improved but can't provide any data that measures any exact improvement.  With Peyronies Disease many don't even know their curve measurement at a given erection level.  Reduce the erection by just a few percent and the deformity presents very differently.

When all three of these are removed: large, double-blind, objective measurable results, and we even remove "a formal study" from the equation, we are left with individual antidotal accounts that can be influenced by so many factors that conclusions are impossible.

At the extreme bottom is a commercial enterprise with a monetary interest in saying something while offering no evidence.

Clearly, with Peyronies Disease we have all been forced to either do nothing, or lower our level of evidence.  The question becomes how far we will lower it.  Unless a treatment is free of the look of a money making venture, and unless there is very little risk of side-effects, I like to stay near the top of this list.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Joshua

Hawk:
That is a very informative post! It makes perfect logical sense. I agree with much of what you have said. However, it seems like we (Peyronies Disease patients) do not have the advantages of many large, double-blind studies that provide objective and measurable results available to us, in  reference to Peyronies Disease treatments (are there any?). I can understand your caution and concern in trying questionable products or treatments. There are some scary treatments out there (penis stretchers, penis rollers, etc...) However, I can't fault anyone that tries unusual or alternative products that lack the studies you mentioned. I am not ashamed to admit I have used the VED, Infrared heat treatments, herbal supplements, and insane amounts of various vitamins, often armed with little more than a summary from Medline.

I do know that I had marble sized pieces of plaque that have been reduced to a pin head at most. I don't need a study to notice that and share it with you guys. However, you're right it does not mean crap! My Peyronies Disease could be self resolving. That also makes me wonder if this disease is even a descent candidate for those studies. That all said I do have to admit Dr Lin seems fishy as hell! However, if you feel it's working for you learn4life congratulations and keep it up! At least your spirits are high and you feel some control over this disease.

However, stay away from the penis stretches  ;) thats going to far ;D

Joshua



learn4life

Hey ! Thanks Hawk and Joshua for your response. Its awesome to be able to discuss on a forum with fellow Peyronies Disease members .... ;)

I have stumbled onto the Lin website before and after some careful examination I rejected it as a commercial enterprise with lots of claims and no clinical studies, double-blind trials, or objective proof.

(R)
Ok in response to this.

Careful examination meaning how extensively?

How long have you studied Dr.Lins work for ?

What specificaly have you rejected?

What exactly has no objective proof?


Dr.Lins work is very similar to Alan Ritz methods too. If you feel skeptical of Alan Ritz's work becauase it is similar to Dr.Lins
have a look at the feedback here :

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159800168X/qid=1133840369/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-3896453-5763901?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

Surely with 63 good quality feedback at the rate of 4.5 out of 5 stars is something positive and genuine ? Especially
when it is in the sex catorgory..... One of the exercises in Alan Ritz's book "Multiple Orgasms without ejaculation"
can be done within a few minutes. This is not the kegel exercise that people rave about which only stimulates
the sympathetic system.  

providing objective, measurable results –  I dont think this is possible with Male Multiple Orgasms without
ejaculation... can anyone correct me ?

Alan ritz uses l-tyrosine for dopamine, l-ariginine/l-citruline for no, 5-htp for serotonin, choline for acetylcholine,
a multi-vitamin/mineral and whey protein amino acids, tribulus terrestris/hydroxyandrost-4-ene-6, 17-dioxo-3-thp ether
(3-ohat)/3, 7-diketo-androst-1,4,6-triene (atd) for testosterone and herbs from tcm tonics specialist ron teeguarden.

The difference is that Dr.Lin uses herbs to generate the same effects and much more. You dont have to buy Dr.Lins herbs.

The main point is that if ones body is lacking the above then it would impact the recovery of Peyronies Disease. After applying Alan Ritz's work
it has helped with Peyronies Disease alot !!  Before you go on thinking Iam some kind of salesman for Alan Ritz or Dr.Lin please keep on reading as
I have a very good offer for you Hawk and Joshua ;D

I require a pretty high level of convincing to layout money and effort. (I dont blame you) ;D There are literally tens of thousands of people competing for my money with amazing claims from making my kids grow taller, to a pill that only makes a woman lose weight in the exact places she "needs" to lose inches.

In response to this (R)

It isnt just about taking a "Magic Pill" as clearly stated in Dr.Lin and Alan Ritz's work. It does require much more action than just
popping a few pills.

If money is the issue Hawk(Joshua as well as im being kind)  ;)then I can do you a favor for helping me by being able to post on this forum.

I WILL BUY YOU BOTH ALAN RITZ'S BOOK

so that you have not laid out any money and test his theory and put it into practise.
In the whole book Alan Ritz does not link or suggest a specific herb or vitamin that he can profit from.
This is up to the reader to pursue and to choose from. THIS MEANS you wont feel presured
into buying more things from Alan Ritz ok??? !!! Well he does plug his second book a few times though ...  :P

To be honest your Post Hawk overwhelmed me at first as I never did well with big words  ;)
I can whole heartedley say Dr.Lin and Alan Ritz's work in the sexual related fields.
IF you want me to get all technical on it..... I cant ... I dont have the brainpower Professor !!  :P

Try the Borage Oil/Starflower oil at first and you should notice some results.

Also I have already suggested doing a colon cleanse and I will suggest it again.

One can take the best nutrients, spend hundreds regularly, but barely 5-10% of the nutrition will pass through. I
t has helped intestinal diseases like gastritis, diarrhea, polyps, diverticulotis, colitis, Crohn's disease irritable bowel, etc.

Whoever reads the following below please answer to it !! OR ELSE I will send the chippendales on you .... eh what ???  ???         ;D
How many Bowel Movements are you having? What is/has your diet been like? Acohol drinking much?
What is the size of your waist?  This is not just directed to Hawk btw so people step up to the plate ..now !!  :P

If you do take the time to really get stuck into Dr.Lins work you will see
that it would be impossible for someone to just make all of this up.

IF there is something you feel fishy about or feel skeptical about then
just drop Dr.Lin an email about anything sexual related, he will be able to back it up.
I only know and remember bits and bobs  ;)

This post isnt about me being right as my meaning is to remedy the situation.
I know this works and Iam willing to lay my money to help you guys.

Hope this helps.

It is now past 6:30am here in Scotland and I must head to my very missed bed !!   ;D NN

learn4life

Quote from: Joshua on December 07, 2005, 10:22:22 PM
Hawk:
That is a very informative post! It makes perfect logical sense. I agree with much of what you have said. However, it seems like we (Peyronies Disease patients) do not have the advantages of many large, double-blind studies that provide objective and measurable results available to us, in  reference to Peyronies Disease treatments (are there any?). I can understand your caution and concern in trying questionable products or treatments. There are some scary treatments out there (penis stretchers, penis rollers, etc...) However, I can't fault anyone that tries unusual or alternative products that lack the studies you mentioned. I am not ashamed to admit I have used the VED, Infrared heat treatments, herbal supplements, and insane amounts of various vitamins, often armed with little more than a summary from Medline.
Joshua have you tried the Evening Promose Oil or Starflower oil on the penile tissues? It should be massaged twice a day with a spontanous erection if possible.
Morning time is the best when stress levels are low. Use the O fingers(Index and Thumb) to massage. It also helps if you can get to the point of ejaculation but dont ejaculate.
The prostagladin E1 synthesis will be produced even more if you take some fish oil and borage oil daily. 3000mg each. Best to split it so it can be fully absorbed.

Im going to do the Vip massage and Vip exercise while using the infrared light so the Vip cream+borage oil can penetrate the scars+colagen deeper and also
to rejuvenate the near dead nerves. Wish me luck folks ! :)


Quote from: Joshua on December 07, 2005, 10:22:22 PM
I do know that I had marble sized pieces of plaque that have been reduced to a pin head at most. I don't need a study to notice that and share it with you guys. However, you're right it does not mean crap! My Peyronies Disease could be self resolving. That also makes me wonder if this disease is even a descent candidate for those studies. That all said I do have to admit Dr Lin seems fishy as hell! However, if you feel it's working for you learn4life congratulations and keep it up! At least your spirits are high and you feel some control over this disease.

Thanks for the encouragement. I usually get flamed for the mentioning Dr.Lin. This is because people judge his website design rather than the actual context in the website.
Prostaglandin E-1 softens the penis to give it the more elastic feel and normal feel.  


Joshua, what exactly is fishy about Dr.Lins work ? Is their something that is wrong or doesnt make sense?

Quote from: Joshua on December 07, 2005, 10:22:22 PM
However, stay away from the penis stretches  ;) thats going to far ;D

lol !! I got Peyronies Disease from penis stretches and lots more so pleeeasse dont remind me :)  

Joshua

Learn4life:
I read you reply and enjoy the debate. Don't worry about getting flamed for your viewpoint. That rarely if ever happens here. I will reply in detail later. I am at work now.
Joshua

learn4life


Hawk

Learn4life,

You are both kind, and gracious to offer to buy a book for me.  I can clearly see that you passionately believe in Dr. Linn products and his medical claims.  

While I don't think there is any legitimate science or studies to support his claims, I think it would be tedious for most readers to see me answer point by point and then have you counter respond, especially to thirty different issue.  This back and fourth would likely drift far a field from Peyronies Disease and oral treatments.  I also have some concern that people often see a strongly stated objection to a message or a piece of evidence as an attack on the messenger.  As an administrator of the forum, I try to avoid risking offense to other members.

Since my earlier post outlines the exact guidelines I use when considering if a claim is legitimate, I am satisfied to let that stand for now.  If you apply those items one at a time to Dr Linn's website, you will see why I tend to dismiss his claims.  I have no reason to think that your guidelines are the same as mine, so we will probably never agree, but at least you will see how I reach my conclusions.

Thanks again for your response.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Larry H

We must all agree that from time to time we may disagree, that is the worth of this, and other forums. Debate is good and healthy, and if we are to achieve anything, debate is important in the mix of opinions.

Larry

learn4life

Hiya !

I would appreciate if you could sort out the post to Joshua, Hawk.. if thats ok?

Its no problem to finish up on that subject but I wont be letting you guys of the hook that easy  ;)

To Hawk and Joshua ... If you can PM me your home address so I can purchase the books for you
it would be much appreciated. Dont worry about me popping up at your house as Im half way across the
world in the Uk :)

Cheers !

droberts10

update

nothin to knew, i actually am tryin the infrared light that joshua did, and i am doing this spray related to chelation therapy.

As far as the wogonin, I came across it as well and would like to hear if anything has developed success from tryin, as I will keep you posted on the chelation therapy, good luck all

cortong

Hi , I am new to forum. I have developed Peyronies Disease over the past 6 months . I am awaiting a consultants appointment  but in the meantime am taking usual supplements.
I came across  EDTA chelation  supplement on the web which looked good  has  anyone tried this?

regards

Grant  

droberts10

I am currently trying it. I am trying the spray which cost me over 100 bucks, as usual. I will keep you updated. Good Luck

roadblock

Came across this article...I'm sure some of you may have already seen it. Published recently, doesn't say anything much that is new but it seems to be a fairly comprehensive literature review:

http://amfar.mediwire.com/main/Default.aspx?P=Content&ArticleID=168333

cortong

Quote from: droberts10 on December 19, 2005, 01:42:14 PM
I am currently trying it. I am trying the spray which cost me over 100 bucks, as usual. I will keep you updated. Good Luck

I was interested in the whole chelation idea as the manufacturers claim it can break up fibrin deposits. www.life-enhancement.com.  As I have a history of heart disease in my family I was looking into any possible link between Peyronies and  other vascular probs. As this is only available in the US I wondered if any of you guys out there had used it or other Enzyme based fibrin busters such as Nattokinaise.
I have  read that Peyronies Disease is linked to an  enzyme problem in the blood that is also linked to  Dupretens and trigger thumb.( both of which I have)

dcaptain

Cortong,

Happy holidays.  I can chime in on the Nattokinase end.  I did try it for about a month and a half or so - I took 60 pills worth.  These were very small pills (only 50 mg each), so I would often take 3-4 a day.  I noted no effect on the Peyronies Disease either in terms of plaque size or curve, although obviously I only took them for a short time and gave up.

One caution - I would say Nattokinase definitely has some effect on the blood.  I got a bit light-headed the first time I took it, and this basically continued, although it lessenned over time.  Nattokinase supposedly lowers blood pressure as well, so that may be it.  I don't know as I don't have a monitor to check BP, but something was definitely up with the Nattokinase.  I don't know if anyone else had the same happen, but I'd just say be sure to be careful.  


Hawk

Cortong,

Thanks for your post and your active support of the forum.  You raise some important questions that I hope others will respond to.  I post the following only as a fellow Peyronies Disease patient sharing what I think I have learned from continued study.

Keep in mind that Peyronies Disease plaque has nothing at all to do with deposits of anything.  The terms "plaque" and "fibrin" cannot be correlated to other conditions like arterial plaque that have no slight similarities or connection to Peyronies Disease.  Peyronies Disease plaque would be less confusing if we called it what it is really is, scar tissue.   All scar tissue has some similarities.  All conditions that fall under the catch-all phrase of "plague" do not.  Peyronies Disease is scar tissue and is made up of collagen just as all other scar tissue.  That is why Verapimil which is used on other scar tissue such as the skin, works to some degree on Peyronies Disease. The problem is getting it to the Peyronies Disease scar tissue.  That is also why small intestine submucosa (SIS) works on Peyronies Disease, it works on all scar and wound repair.  Peyronies Disease is the bodies natural scar formation gone hyper.  Something triggers it and it gets no signal to stop.  Even if there ever was a trauma, the scar traveled far beyond the original wound site.

When we ask if something is likely to work on Peyronies Disease, we have to ask if we think it is likely that it will work on other scar tissue, not if it would work on some other condition also referred to as plaque.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

cortong

Thanks Hawk for  puting me straight ( so to speak) I think I have been a bit confused  by certain  naturopath sites that have made a bit of as link between Peyronies Disease and  other vascular probs. Thanks  alot for taking the time  to set up this site  as its great to hear of other ideas , which I havent had from my doctor to date.

regards

Grant

cortong

I would be interested if anyone  has  used any of the treatment packs available from PDI which includes  a DMSO treatment.  

jaysum

Glucosamine

I am developing arthritis in my fingers and it has been suggested that I take Glucosamine. In reading about this product, it states that it may actually re-grow cartilage. Not sure that this is going to be good in the Peyronies Disease area. Anybody have any experience / thoughts?

Happy holidays,

Jay

mark501

jay, reference your question about glucosamine. For those using topical verapamil, the directions say not to take glucosamine while on tv. It also mentions others not to take. Quote 'DO NOT TAKE SUPPLEMENTAL GLUCOSAMINE/CHONDROTIN, L-LYSINE, OR GREATER THAN 400MG SUPPLEMENTAL VITAMIN C PER DAY. Best regards, Mark.

jagxjr

This regimen seems to work really well:

Trental (3 x 400 mg)
Cialis (1 x 5 mg)
l-Arginine (5 g / day)

The idea is to combine inhibitors of PDE 4 and 5 with NO modulators (NO derived from iNOS counteract collagen deposition). Also, Trental acts as a TGF-B1 inhibitor (TGF-B1 is overexpressed in Peyronies Disease tissue). This treatmnet needs to be taken for at least 3 months before results will be obtained, but this drug combination is highly effective ( As a patient of Dr. Rajfer I take it myself). Also, frequent erections (1hr/day) help alot for the drugs to act.

Mike (PhD)


Here is the patent reference:

Methods of use of inhibitors of phosphodiesterases and modulators of nitric oxide, reactive oxygen species, and metalloproteinases in the treatment of Peyronie's disease, arteriosclerosis and other fibrotic diseases.      Gonzalez-Cadavid, Nestor F.; Rajfer, Jacob.  (Harbor-UCLA Research and Education Institute, USA).    PCT Int. Appl.  (2004),     141 pp.

Abstract

The methods and compns. of the invention are of use for treatment of conditions involving fibrosis, such as Peyronie's disease plaque, penile corporal fibrosis, penile veno-occlusive dysfunction, Dupuytren's disease nodules, vaginal fibrosis, clitoral fibrosis, female sexual arousal disorder, abnormal wound healing, keloid formation, general fibrosis of the kidney, bladder, prostate, skin, liver, lung, heart, intestines or any other localized or generalized fibrotic condition, vascular fibrosis, arterial intima hyperplasia, atherosclerosis, arteriosclerosis, restenosis, cardiac hypertrophy, hypertension or any condition characterized by excessive fibroblast or smooth muscle cell proliferation or deposition of collagen and extracellular matrix in the blood vessels and/or heart.  In certain embodiments, the compns. may comprise a PDE-4 inhibitor, PDE-5 inhibitor, a compd. that elevates cGMP and/or PKG, a stimulator of guanylyl cyclase and/or PKG, a combination of a compd. that elevates cGMP, PKG or NO with an antioxidant that decreases ROS, or a compd. that increases MMP activity.  In certain embodiments, the compn. may be a gene therapy vector.  



hopeful

Hi Hawk.. I am a new member.. 57 years old.. contracted Peyronies Disease about 5 months ago.. I am new to the forum.. I found an articel today that was posted by someone who was a pharmacist.. now I cant find it.. need help navigating.. Can you help me find this post???

Also, I just dropped over $1400 witha so-called Ed medical specialist in Winter Park Fl.. got me for a bunch of tests etc... However, I learned about him from this company  ( see link)  www.physion.com I went there thinking I had to to get this protocil, when in reality, any MD can write a script for it...  

This protocol is new to the US.. from Italy.. I am about ready to order the system.. need prescription... I am wondering.. has anybody in the forum tried this system yet? If so.. would love to find thier results... They are saying that if you catch it in early stages.. that they have had as much as 50% and more curvature reduction... I am 35% curve...upwards however, today it was pulling to the left- semi hard.... I am scared to death..and have not been able to have sex.... I am hopeful for a cure.

Please let me know

Hopeful

Hawk

Hopeful,  Welcome to the forum and thanks for adding your support by posting.  That is the only thing that  makes this forum so successful.  

If you notice the banner at the top, you will see a search button right under the map of South America.  If you remember a good identifying word in the post you saw, then just enter it in search.  It will show you all the posts containing that word regardless of what topic they were posted under or when they were posted.

If it was a recent post, you can go to the home page of this forum by hitting the home button right under the banner.  Once on the main page, go to "Stats" near the bottom.  Written in small font you will see "view the most recent posts"  It will show you all the recent posts regardless of what topic they were posted under.

Don't panic about the Peyronies Disease.  Life goes on, and if you keep a positive mental attitude you can find 98% of your life unaffected.  Attitude is the key.  The second thing is to learn about Peyronies Disease, work through the information and find the things that may help you hold or reverse this condition.

The website you posted is promoting low current electric delivery of topical Verapamil.  Dcaptain, a solid contributing member of our forum is currently using this treatment.  There may be others using it as well.

Good Luck  
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Joshua

Quote from: learn4life on December 01, 2005, 02:31:23 PM
Hey Joshua ! Hows things? Peyronies Disease getting better?
Mine is getting abit better but to me it feels like alot !!

Im not sure if it is the Neprinol or the combination of the treatments ??

Anyways could you recommend a Vitamin E product to help with Peyronies Disease?
Does everyone here experience that Vit E helps with Peyronies Disease??

Things are fine, Thanks for asking. My Peyronies Disease is at a stand still ( no worse but no better ) I can live with that for now.
I suggest High Gamma Vit E (any brand) 400 mg a day.
Best of luck and I hope you keep seeing progress!!
Joshua

nick

hey cortang, I have taken many of the products on PDI. I have been taking a multi V , MSM and Neprinol for some time now. I was also using the Thacker's formula at the same time and was having great success. The problem though is that the Neprinol is way to expensive ($150.00 a month). So I really need to decided what part has been working. I really can not keep spending this kind of money. So I stopped using the thacker's and continued with the supplements. Surprise the curve has begun to worsen. So my next step is to cut the dosage way back and start on the thacker's again. It seems as if that is the ticket and I may have been pissing my money away. Also I started using an unfiltered , non distiled, pure organic ACV and that made a huge difference.

jagxjr

Joshua:

Not all vitamin E is the same. In fact, only a few brands have the right combination of vitamin E isoforms (Vitamin E has 8 different isomers). Most brands only contain the alpha form which is not enough. You need also (at least) the gamma-form which is the most important form with respect to Peyronies. It is not only an anti-oxidant, but also has anti-inflammatory propreties (COX-2 inhibitor). The "normal" vitamin E (alpha-form alone) commonly found in stores is not effective.

Mike (PhD)

PS: And remember, Vitamin E needs to be taken with a meal because it's a fat-soluble vitamin. On an empty stomach it is hardly absorbed.

Joshua

I agree that while all brands are not exactly same that any brand listed as a high gamma e is just as good and possibly better than a regular vit e.
I suggested a high gamma e.
Thanks
Joshua

learn4life

Thanks Joshua for your helpful response.

So things still the same then ? :(  Well heres something to try :)

I have been using one gel of Evening primose oil to massage into the scars.

After massaging for 5-10 mins I use Apple Cider Vinegar. I only use a small amount of
ACV(Organic) to massage the scars/collagen.

I have noticed a huge difference in the penile tissues now and also the feeling has gone
up. I suggest you give this a try :)

Let me know if your "up" for it heh heh .... Cheers !  


P.S Dont put ACV before the oil as it can irritate the skin. Of course you know this.
P.SS Did you get my PM about the lamp for infrared Joshua?


Joshua

Quote from: learn4life on December 27, 2005, 08:39:12 PM
Thanks Joshua for your helpful response.
P.SS Did you get my PM about the lamp for infrared Joshua?

Your welcome. No, I didn't get a pm from you regarding IR. Shoot it again or just post it in the alternative section. Thanks.

RE: your treatment, what made you decide to use acv? curious..

learn4life


Hey Joshua,

Hows the holidays been for ya ? Enjoying the free time ?

Well I got ACV from the DMSO page on this forum... you know the
thackers formula :)

Iam still waiting for the DMSO to be delivered from the US and due to the
XMas period it is taking abit longer... but my ACV had arrived :)

Now I was thinking if ACV works to soften these scars and rejuvenate the penile nerves
when used with Gauze strips wrapped around the penis, would it help soften the scars if it was penile massaged ?

So I was feeling abit wild .... ;) and rubbed abit too much ACV onto my
twang ;) and Boy !! It stinged ROFL  !! Ouch .....  ;D

So I quickly used Vip cream to take away this slight pain....

Anyways I noticed even though it stung it boosted my erection angle and
strength. Also I noticed the feeling on my knob was much higher which felt
amazing !! The penile tissues once massaged, it felt much softer and the resistance to expand the local tissues had lessened so my penile
expansion had furthured abit also.

From this lesson I use the vip cream+Primose oil first ;)

BUT

today I diluted the ACV with some water and then applied it onto my
Peyronies Disease affected Penis and it worked similarly without the sting.

You should reaaaally give it a try Joshua as it has worked wonders for me and hopefully you too.

Ok will drop you a Pm now.

Laters,

Cheers !



cortong


learn4life

Quote from: cortong on December 29, 2005, 03:23:22 AM
Hi, what is VIP cream ? cheers Grant

Hey Grant ! Nice to meet ya :) A Scottish patient here  :D

So how is it at your end ?

Vip cream is for penile, clitoral and G-spot massage and enlargement; Rejuvenate the mechanically-damaged nerves and tissues in the penis, clitoris and G-spot; Heating up the vaginal and erectile tissues for better sex and orgasm during sex.

How?

VIP Cream is formulated to promote prostaglandin E-1 synthesis in the local tissues and nerves in the penis, clitoris and G-spot  under a warning condition during masturbation, intercourse or oral sex.

Pro E-1 attacks Collagen which in turn helps with Peyronies Disease.


The local tissues, blood vessels and nerves can erect very effectively when Vip is rubbed/massaged. The effect is that it has helped with my own collagen scarring and also rejuvenated some of the near dead nerves/arteries/veins etc

What does it contain?

It contains Deionied water ,Vitamin E, Zinc Oxide, L-lysine, Ginkgo Biloba Extract, Cajeput Oil, Tee Tree Oil, Benzoin Oil, Ginger Root Extract, Peppermint Extract, DHEA, Wild Yam, Isoflavones, Aloe Vera Gel, Honey, Oliver oil, Oregon Grape Extract, L-Arginine, Yohimbe Extract, Glyceryl Stearate, Peg-100 Stearate, Carbomer, Glycerin, Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Edta.




learn4life


Ok pressed the Enter button there by mistake  8)

So please .... let me finish  ;D

One of the main purposes of Vip cream is anti-inflammation which has greatly helped myself due to often precum flooding and too much Prostaglandin E-2 building up which causes inflammation in the local penile area.

Why is it called  "VIP Cream" ? - Vagina-Interacting-Penis cream.

If you use VIP Cream for lovemaking, you will see the increasing erectile size of the penis, clitoris and G-spot immediately. Dont believe me ? Try it  ;D

Using VIP Cream during lovemaking is even more effective than using it alone.
The original idea of Vip cream was to enlarge the penis, clitoris and G-spot via lovemaking.

However, I myself have found it also helps repair the damaged tissues in the penis.

Now Iam adding Apple Cider Vinegar(ACV Organic) into my vip cream massages and seems to double/triple the effects of healing the nerves and softening the penile scars.

Once DMSO has arrived I will add this onto my Peyronies Disease treatment as DMSO will help carry the Vip cream+Borage oil(GLA)+ACV deeper into the penile tissues.

If DMSO does what it is intented to do then it should make this treatment even better to help with Peyronies Disease.

Also Iam looking for a lamp for a 250w Infrared bulb to add onto my massages.

I intend to do these massages with the treatment while under the infrared heat so it can fully penetrate right into the deep penile cyclinders/damaged uretha/Deep Arteries.

I expect after 3-6 months of these practises I should be 80-90% back to normal before Peyronies Disease since age 16 .

Hope this helps.

Cheers !

P.S If anyone wishes to try Vip Cream and has a partner then i suggest using it while lovemaking but use a screwing technique. The heat and the Pro E-1 from the vagina and also the ingriedients of Vip Cream, coupled with a screwing technique is considered to be the best way to heal the penile scars.




roadblock

Went to GNC today and bought what seemed like everything they have! After reading all of the posts regarding oral regimens, reviewing the literature available on the internet, etc. I have decided upon the following plan:

Isomer E 400 twice a day
acetyl-l-carnitine 1000mg twice a day
alpha-lipoic acid 200mg twice a day
pyridoxine 200mg daily
Bromelain 500mg twice a day

The acetyl-l-carnitine comes combined with alpha-lipoic acid (500mg/200mg respectively), so I bought those as well as acetyl-l-carnitine 500mg alone to take to give me 1000mg acetyl-l-carnitine and 200mg alpha-lipoic acid twice a day. Can you believe the ALC alone cost more than the combo pill with ALA?!?

For the time being, I'm leaving the l-arginine and the lecithin out of the regimen but maybe someone out there can convince me to plug them in as well. There seems to be a place for them within the regimen for patients with significant plaque and ED. Right now, I'm only 4 months into this and seem to still be in the acute/inflammatory phase.

A three month supply of everything I listed up above cost me just a tad over 200 bucks with the gold card.

Just felt like sharing! I'll keep everyone posted as to how things go for the next three months. If anyone has any comments, suggestions or questions feel free!

roadblock

I've seen wogonin pop up here and there in the Forum and was wondering if anyone had given it a try. I'm not sure if it is even available yet but if anyone has any new info please post.

learn4life

Quote from: roadblock on December 30, 2005, 07:19:59 PM
Went to GNC today and bought what seemed like everything they have! After reading all of the posts regarding oral regimens, reviewing the literature available on the internet, etc. I have decided upon the following plan:

Isomer E 400 twice a day
acetyl-l-carnitine 1000mg twice a day
alpha-lipoic acid 200mg twice a day
pyridoxine 200mg daily
Bromelain 500mg twice a day

The acetyl-l-carnitine comes combined with alpha-lipoic acid (500mg/200mg respectively), so I bought those as well as acetyl-l-carnitine 500mg alone to take to give me 1000mg acetyl-l-carnitine and 200mg alpha-lipoic acid twice a day. Can you believe the ALC alone cost more than the combo pill with ALA?!?

For the time being, I'm leaving the l-arginine and the lecithin out of the regimen but maybe someone out there can convince me to plug them in as well. There seems to be a place for them within the regimen for patients with significant plaque and ED. Right now, I'm only 4 months into this and seem to still be in the acute/inflammatory phase.

A three month supply of everything I listed up above cost me just a tad over 200 bucks with the gold card.

Just felt like sharing! I'll keep everyone posted as to how things go for the next three months. If anyone has any comments, suggestions or questions feel free!


Hey Roadblock ! Me again .... :)

Thats exciting for you to try out this treatment plan.
I have read your posts via your profile section.

Have you tried any of the supplements before? If not its best not to buy 3 months supply as you are not 100% sure if they will help with your Peyronies Disease.

It would be financially better if you purchased  say 1 months supply and noted the
results... BUT if your a rich man then its all good ;)

Roadblock do you experience monring erections? You can PM me instead.

How much spontaneous erectiosn do you have on average daily?

So your Peyronies Disease started of with penile base pain yea ? Do you have pain or scars there now?

Ok get back to me quick .... :) Pm is fine if this is not for everybodys eyes  8)

Cheers !

From Snowy Scotland !















roadblock

I went with three months because I agree with Hawk from another post (I believe it was him) that it takes time to see any benefit. As long as I tolerate the meds I'll give it three months, especially since I'm early in the progression and something might be of benefit.

With regards to ED, recently I've seen a marked reduction in my ED which I believe was psychological to begin with. Plenty at night, although I avoid most things that might stimulate an erection these days, trying to get through the inflammatory/painful stage before I do much in terms of sexual activity.

To answer your question, this whole mess started with pain at the base. Over four months I have developed a slight curve at the base with some banding/wasting/whatever you want to call it in the semi-erect state that is gone with full erection. However, the banding is not near the base, it is in the center where there is no appreciable pain or nodules/plaques. I can't appreciate any plaques in or around the base, but I do have a few very small nodules (bb size) on the top near the glans in the midline. They don't seem to contribute to any angulation and are not particularly painful.

So, right now if I could take one thing away it would be the pain...I could live with everything else easily as it stands right now.

learn4life

Quote from: roadblock on December 30, 2005, 09:59:41 PM
I went with three months because I agree with Hawk from another post (I believe it was him) that it takes time to see any benefit. As long as I tolerate the meds I'll give it three months, especially since I'm early in the progression and something might be of benefit.

How about adding a massage method? In my experience the actual direct contact with
some treatments used help attack Peyronies Disease much more effectively than just taking supplements. AND guess what ? CHEAPER TOO  ;D


With regards to ED, recently I've seen a marked reduction in my ED which I believe was psychological to begin with. Plenty at night, although I avoid most things that might stimulate an erection these days, trying to get through the inflammatory/painful stage before I do much in terms of sexual activity.

So your still having PAIN!! I use to dread that part so bad !

Blood flow to the directed area should help but do you experience
Pain in the local penile area with every erection?

On a scale of 1-10 how painful is it ?

I ask this to determine if a massaging treatment would help or not.


To answer your question, this whole mess started with pain at the base. Over four months I have developed a slight curve at the base with some banding/wasting/whatever you want to call it in the semi-erect state that is gone with full erection. However, the banding is not near the base, it is in the center where there is no appreciable pain or nodules/plaques. I can't appreciate any plaques in or around the base, but I do have a few very small nodules (bb size) on the top near the glans in the midline. They don't seem to contribute to any angulation and are not particularly painful.

It started with Pain at the base = To determine if there is either penile damage or if the base is congested.  Next time you have a hard erection please jump up and down without touching your penis at all. If you notice any slight pain on the base, please get back to me.



So, right now if I could take one thing away it would be the pain...I could live with everything else easily as it stands right now.

learn4life

Hey Roadblock,

Can you let us know how you got penile damage?

Cheers !

roadblock

What do you mean by congestion at the base?

I cannot recall a specific injury but there were a few times I bent a little bit funny during intercourse...I'm assuming this was when the damage was sustained.

learn4life

Quote from: roadblock on December 30, 2005, 10:33:23 PM
What do you mean by congestion at the base?


Hey !

As in the blood has got trapped there maybe due to some mechanical/physical damage done at the base...

Ok I need to be brief Im afraid but will get back to you after work.

If the pain started just after from your bending during intercourse then most likely this has caused Peyronies Disease over the long run.

Also if you are avoiding things that can cause erections due to pain and inflammation then most likely due to the damage done and not much blood flow, I wonder if you have damaged nerves as well ?

Is the sensitivity still the same ?

When you urinate and ejaculate, do you experience pain? If so then most likely your uretha is also damaged.

If you can get back to me with the facts in this and the previous post, I think I could really offer some good guidance on what to do.

I myself suffered from Peyronies Disease since about 16 and depleted my bodys sexual functions/neurotransmitters from over masturbating since age 11.

I suffered from impotence/ED and even lost some size during my suppose to be peak years(Teens)

Iam seeing much improvement now but it hasnt been easy especially during the years of when Iam suppose to be at my best.

Hope this helps.

Cheers !






jagxjr

I am taking the following combination of drugs and I see definately improvements:

3 x 400 mg Trental
1 x 2.5 mg Cialis
5 x 1 g l-Arginine

These drugs were prescibed to me by my urologist (Dr. Rajfer/UCLA, one of the leading experts in Peyronies Disease)

In addition, I take the following supplements daily, all with food:

2 x 1 g acetyl-l-carnitine
1 x 400 IU Vitamin E + 300 mg gamma Vit E (Solary: Bio E Gamma Plex)
2 x 120 mg Coenzyme Q10
1 x 1.2 g Ester-C
1 x Multi-Vitamin (including 200 myg Selenium)

I am on this regimen since 2 months and I see allot of improvement (plaque size reduced, bending reduced from 50 degrees to about 20 degrees).
It is VERY important to have frequent erections (about 1 hour total during the day, achieved by masturbation, but not by intercourse) to increase the blood flow in the penis and to elavate the cGMP level.

I can highly recommend this treatment plan. Just remember to take the medications with food.

Mike (PhD)

jagxjr

One more thing:

I highly recomend to consulat an urologist, who is experienced in Peyronies Disease, and not to take matters in own hands. Many treatments (DMSO etc..) I have read on this forum lack proper clinical safety and efficacy studies, and might result in great harm. Remember, with whatever you do, it has to be safe and supervised by an urologist. Also, all medications and supplements have their side effects (especially when taken all together), and while taking these medications your blood should be frequently checked to make sure your body tolerates all that.
Peyronies Disease can cause allot of disterss, and only a few urologist are experienced in this field. But Only a well designed treatment plan can bring help, not some weired "do it yourself" methods which I have read on this forum.

Mike (PhD)
 

Hawk

Why would you recommend masturbation over intercourse?

I consider masterbation at least a rough as intercourse and foreplay, less satisfying, and more stressful to a relationship.
Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 70 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums