missing enzymes in peyronies sufferers- Dr. Levine

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ohno

If you go to youtube and put in "what are the common causes of peyronies disease" you will see (amongst other comments from The Sexual Medicine Society of North America's annual town hall meeting) Dr. Levine espouse his theory on missing enzymes in peyronies sufferers. He doesn't name these enzymes but it sure would be nice to find out what they are.

chefcasey

I saw this as well.  I'm sure everyone on this forum(myself included) are DYING to know what enzymes they are.  Apparently these is a key enzyme or enzymes that all Peyronies Disease patients appear to be lacking.  

He makes the point that every man in his lifetime will experience some sort of trauma to the erect penis during sexual activity, either via a misthrust or excessive bending, yet only 10% of men will develop a problem.  If we can pinpoint the problem, then perhaps we can finally solve how to treat this puzzling disease.

tmwstw

I heard dr.Levine speach on this topic as well. I'm taking Serracor-NK which is a combination of serrapeptase and nattokinase. One guy i know personally took this for 6 months and he told me it softened his scar tissues. I dont know for sure if those are the enzymes Dr.Levine mentioned. Go to biomediclabs.com and read more about it, if you guys want. The shipping was pretty good, it came in a Fedex package, 2 days after i put in my order, but it's pretty pricy!! 150 capsules for 80 bucks and i'm taking 5/day ==> that will be 80/month ... more than double what i spent for my gym membership ... I plan to try it for 3 months, and hope to see some improvement, even a small one  :D.

samo

I am taking both of these at night on an empty stomach for almost a month now purchased from vitamin shoppe. The theory. as I understand it, it that some enzymes will break down scar tissue when they do not have the focus of food to break down. Makes sense.

chefcasey

aren't theses combinations of enzymes basically what neprinol is?  If so I haven't heard very reliable reports on their effectiveness

BentYoung

These two components are exactly what Neprinol is. I would stay away from expensive pills that include these ingredients. I took Neprinol for two years (and hundreds of dollars spent) and got absolutely no results. We would be better served to find out what Levine is talking about. I doubt it is these two enzymes.  

George999

Neprinol did absolutely nothing for my Peyronie's either but it did really clean my lungs out.

chefcasey

I have a follow up with Dr. Levine in early April, so I'll definitely ask him what enzymes he found that were missing.  I've read that there are up to 75,000 different enzymes in the human body, so I wouldn't waste money doing trial and error on which one it may be lol.

ohno

Please do ask Dr. Levine. I have my doubts he'll tell you (he may be doing a study...). The reason I posted this in the first place was that I was hoping any and all of Dr. Levine's patients on this board will ask him. Wouldn't it be great if we could all take a simple enzyme and get help from it with this horrid condition.

chefcasey

I really hope it ends up as an enzyme that we can take orally.  I saw Dr. Levine actually right before the conference was held, so the research must be very recent.  

I'm not sure exactly how it would work though.  Maybe someone with more medical knowledge can comment, but I don't believe any enzyme has the ability to break down scar and replace it with healthy tissue, but then again the type of scarring process we have may be exclusive to Peyronies Disease.  I always wondered how us guys can develop Peyronies Disease, from a simple misthrust or bending, and yet John Bobbitt can get the whole thing cut off and not develop it.  I even notice more accidents and misthrusts now while watching porn, or I see these porn stars bending their dicks in all sorts of uncomfortable looking positions, thinking to myself "I've never even done half of those things, why do I get it and these guys don't?"  Although I always wondered why I got injured from weightlifting when all my other friends didn't. Perhaps I'm more prone to injury than others because of missing enzymes.

lespleen

in the video levine refers not only to enzymes generally but to a very specific class of enzymes: those responsible for breaking down scar tissue .

BentYoung

chef -

I have even spoken with my friends about their experiences with injuries during sex and they have some serious stories about bending and trauma during irresponsible encounters, yet they never develop Peyronies Disease. I think the problem is less about injury and more about underlying auto immune issues. Its important for us all to open our mind to new theories (as we do on this forum all the time) if we want to find the real problem. I think theories like missing enzymes are very interesting and we should all do our part to learn more about it. The only good thing about Peyronies Disease is the men with it are so devastated that they won't ever rest until they find a solution. Thank God for this online community!    

George999

This is just yet more evidence that Peyronie's is about metabolic dysfunction.  It is not about trauma (although trauma can trigger it) and it is not about blood flow.  It is about basic metabolic functions that are failing in there role of preserving health and healing.  THIS is why we often see Peyronie's associated with other diseases, because the same metabolic issues at the root of Peyronie's can cause other diseases as well with the right triggers.  The profound need is that we uncover and address those underlying metabolic issues rather than only treating Peyronie's.  This is why I feel strongly that a holistic approach works best when dealing with Peyronies.  Straight off Peyronie's treatments like Pentoxifylline?  Sure, by all means.  But also things like Omega 3 DHA/EPA products AND optimal vitamin D levels which can both correct genetic anomalies over time, etc, etc, etc.  - George

rd

I wonder if PEG-ADA enzyme therapy was what Dr Levine had in mind when he mentioned the missing enzymes?

Luciano

Well after seeing the video and doing some research i found enzyme products that claim they can at least releave the pain and fix the curvature partly.
I guess they want to make money, but after all I spent, its worth a try.
there are 2 major brands out there..
both a cocktail of enzymes (basically the same)

Serrapeptase, Nattokinase, Lipase, Protease, Papain, Bromelain, Rutin, Coenzyme Q10
Plus Amla and Magnesium

just do a google search for peyronie enzymes
and you have both brands on the first page.

Now I dont know if it will work, but it seems it will do no harm, so why not try it.
I ordered a box today and will post if any results.


Luc

BentYoung

Luciano -

These enzymes you mentioned basically make up the product known to many of us long time sufferers as Neprinol. I would be very wary of spending hundreds of dollars on these products as many of us have tried them with no results whatsoever. I personally tried these supplements for over a year and ended up spending hundreds. In the end, all I had to show for it was a depleted bank account. I hate to burst your bubble, but I am trying to save you the time and money. If you do decide to try these, I hope you have more luck than the rest of us.    

fubar

Luciano

Nepronol and serrecor nk were the first thing for a cure I found before finding this forum.I was all aboutit  as I found some kid at a supplement store said that serrapeptase cleared his 75 % scarred lungs.They are salesmen I believed him hook line and sinker.He was good as I did not see him the day before but he new who I was through a co worker.

You're best bet is to try pentox, coq-10 and cialis as these have studies behind them and are showing to work.All they have done is show improvement in my flaccid state at this time.

I would also work a ved in your combat against this disease it does take quite a commitment.All these things will also benefit you in the future .Especially  If you decide on surgery.



Fubar

George999

I actually had some degree of success with Neprinol.  It really cleared out my lungs and helped to clean up my longstanding chronic bronchitis.  But for my Peyronie's it did absolutely nothing.  If you have lung or joint issues, Neprinol might be a worthwhile investment, but for Peyronie's its a waste of money.  Save your money for things like CoQ10 which DOES work and especially for Pentoxifylline which not only works very well, but is far less expensive than Neprinol.  - George

rd

Quote from: chefcasey on February 10, 2011, 12:42:49 PM
I have a follow up with Dr. Levine in early April, so I'll definitely ask him what enzymes he found that were missing.  I've read that there are up to 75,000 different enzymes in the human body, so I wouldn't waste money doing trial and error on which one it may be lol.

Chefcasey, did you get a chance to ask Dr Levine about the enzymes?

chefcasey

Yes actually, I just got back and I'm kind of pissed.  I took a plane ride there and didn't even get to talk to Levine, instead to his nurse practitioner.  Don't get me wrong, she's a nice lady, but I traveled all the way there to see Levine. They know I'm not from chicago, so I don't know why I couldn't just do a follow up on the phone.  I asked about the recent cialis study and they wouldn't prescribe it.  Levine has nothing else for me besides pentox, so I think I'm changing to another specialist.  If there is anything to his missing enzyme research, then it's going to have to be published in a medical journal sometime, so I wouldn't think about it too much.

crashbandit

Quote from: chefcasey on April 15, 2011, 04:52:40 PM
Yes actually, I just got back and I'm kind of pissed.  I took a plane ride there and didn't even get to talk to Levine, instead to his nurse practitioner.  Don't get me wrong, she's a nice lady, but I traveled all the way there to see Levine. They know I'm not from chicago, so I don't know why I couldn't just do a follow up on the phone.  I asked about the recent cialis study and they wouldn't prescribe it.  Levine has nothing else for me besides pentox, so I think I'm changing to another specialist.  If there is anything to his missing enzyme research, then it's going to have to be published in a medical journal sometime, so I wouldn't think about it too much.

How could a doctor do that?? You make an appointment with them and they don't even see you??? That's like going out for dinner but not getting fed...
Cheers

nycsurfer

Same thing.  I (my insurance) just spent thousands of dollars on Mulhall and I saw him over the course of four months for probably five minutes tops.  All done by nurse practitioners.  Even tried caling him to get some answers for that money and his practitioners would call me back.  It's unethical and I'm pissed also!!  Never even looked at my penis after doing 6 VI's.  Amazing.

chefcasey

Quote from: nycsurfer on April 15, 2011, 10:23:01 PM
Same thing.  I (my insurance) just spent thousands of dollars on Mulhall and I saw him over the course of four months for probably five minutes tops.  All done by nurse practitioners.  Even tried caling him to get some answers for that money and his practitioners would call me back.  It's unethical and I'm pissed also!!  Never even looked at my penis after doing 6 VI's.  Amazing.

Did you have any luck with the VI's?  I'm going to look for a Peyronies Disease specialist that's not too famous, someone who has the time to spend with patients from now on.

bogzpeyr

Quote from: George999 on March 21, 2011, 07:46:45 PM
I actually had some degree of success with Neprinol.  It really cleared out my lungs and helped to clean up my longstanding chronic bronchitis.  But for my Peyronie's it did absolutely nothing.  If you have lung or joint issues, Neprinol might be a worthwhile investment, but for Peyronie's its a waste of money.  Save your money for things like CoQ10 which DOES work and especially for Pentoxifylline which not only works very well, but is far less expensive than Neprinol.  - George

George, don't you think that neprinol or any other systemic enzymes therapy could work for early phases of peyronies by lowering inflammation and fibrin deposits ? I tend to think that you didn't see benefits from Neprinol because maybe your peyronies case was more advanced with possible calcification. I would like your opinion on this.

Thank you.

George999

Quote from: bogzpeyr on April 28, 2011, 06:31:25 AM


George, don't you think that neprinol or any other systemic enzymes therapy could work for early phases of peyronies by lowering inflammation and fibrin deposits ? I tend to think that you didn't see benefits from Neprinol because maybe your peyronies case was more advanced with possible calcification. I would like your opinion on this.

Thank you.

Neprinol was actually one of the first things I tried.  Then, much later, when my Peyronie's was much more advanced, I went to Pentoxifylline, which did the job.  Thus, I can tell you that Pentoxifylline is much more effective than Neprinol at a fraction of the price.  And around the same time I was trying Neprinol I was trying Acetyl L Carnitine.  ALC was helpful with Peyronie's, Neprinol wasn't.  Its that simple.  I know very well what worked for me and what didn't.  I had a lot of pain.  Some things stopped the pain and some very notoriously didn't have any effect.  One of the things that had absolutely zero effect was Neprinol.  I still have the better part of a bottle lying around collecting dust.  - George

Farinthesouth

Quote from: George999 on April 28, 2011, 10:27:32 AM
Quote from: bogzpeyr on April 28, 2011, 06:31:25 AM


George, don't you think that neprinol or any other systemic enzymes therapy could work for early phases of peyronies by lowering inflammation and fibrin deposits ? I tend to think that you didn't see benefits from Neprinol because maybe your peyronies case was more advanced with possible calcification. I would like your opinion on this.

Thank you.

Neprinol was actually one of the first things I tried.  Then, much later, when my Peyronie's was much more advanced, I went to Pentoxifylline, which did the job.  Thus, I can tell you that Pentoxifylline is much more effective than Neprinol at a fraction of the price.  And around the same time I was trying Neprinol I was trying Acetyl L Carnitine.  ALC was helpful with Peyronie's, Neprinol wasn't.  Its that simple.  I know very well what worked for me and what didn't.  I had a lot of pain.  Some things stopped the pain and some very notoriously didn't have any effect.  One of the things that had absolutely zero effect was Neprinol.  I still have the better part of a bottle lying around collecting dust.  - George

George: Based on your personal experience, what was de main benefit from ALC, and in what period of time?
Thanks

George999

Quote from: Farinthesouth on April 28, 2011, 10:46:42 AM
George: Based on your personal experience, what was de main benefit from ALC, and in what period of time?
Thanks

For me ALC greatly reduced pain and halted progression of Peyronie's with the exception of occasional flareups.  I probably used it for over two years running.  It was far better than Vitamin E, but not nearly as effective as Pentoxifylline or Ubiquinol.  - George

bogzpeyr

Quote from: George999 on April 28, 2011, 10:27:32 AM
Quote from: bogzpeyr on April 28, 2011, 06:31:25 AM


George, don't you think that neprinol or any other systemic enzymes therapy could work for early phases of peyronies by lowering inflammation and fibrin deposits ? I tend to think that you didn't see benefits from Neprinol because maybe your peyronies case was more advanced with possible calcification. I would like your opinion on this.

Thank you.

Neprinol was actually one of the first things I tried.  Then, much later, when my Peyronie's was much more advanced, I went to Pentoxifylline, which did the job.  Thus, I can tell you that Pentoxifylline is much more effective than Neprinol at a fraction of the price.  And around the same time I was trying Neprinol I was trying Acetyl L Carnitine.  ALC was helpful with Peyronie's, Neprinol wasn't.  Its that simple.  I know very well what worked for me and what didn't.  I had a lot of pain.  Some things stopped the pain and some very notoriously didn't have any effect.  One of the things that had absolutely zero effect was Neprinol.  I still have the better part of a bottle lying around collecting dust.  - George

I understand that you mention only those which are well researched and that is very good. Do you take pentox in cycles ?

George999

Quote from: bogzpeyr on April 28, 2011, 12:59:53 PM

I understand that you mention only those which are well researched and that is very good. Do you take pentox in cycles ?


I have taken Pentox for extended periods.  The last time I got off of it, I started to have problems again after three of four months.  Right now I am off of it again in an attempt to treat a longstanding fungal infection of the skin.  However, now I am on Ubiquinol and I am hoping that will allow me to stay off of Pentox for good this time.  But if I again encounter a problem, I will go back on it without hesitation.  - George

nebula

George, why do you have to stop taking the Pentox to treat the skin problem?

George999

Quote from: nebula on April 29, 2011, 04:41:12 PM
George, why do you have to stop taking the Pentox to treat the skin problem?

Because Pentoxifylline blocks TGF-beta1 and TNF-Alpha, that means it suppresses the immune system.

nebula

The reason I ask is because I'm currently taking an antibiotic and using a topical to counter an acne problem and I thought you might be saying Pentox was could have a negative affect on skin.

George999

The problem is that it works against the antibiotic so you have to weigh all of that.  You might want to PM ComeBacKid about this since he experienced a similar situation.  My solution was that I just let the fungal infection alone until I felt that I could get off of Pentox at least for a while to deal with it.  In your case, the Pentox WILL work against what you are trying to achieve with the antibiotic.  What I would recommend in a major way to deal with the acne would be getting your vitamin D levels tested and make sure they are 50ng/ml.  If they are not, try getting them up to that level, I think you would be amazed at the results.  - George

nebula

I see. I've been on the antibiotic for about 2 months now and I was on Pentox for about a month of that time. I recently started taking the Pentox again but I think I'll stop again because I'm only supposed to take the antibiotic for another month, so I'll start the pentox again at the end of that month. Does this mean though that for the month I was taking both, the antibiotic was COMPLETELY ineffective? Because my skin has actually been looking better lately. As I mentioned, I am also using a topical though. I know antibiotic's aren't a cure for acne though either way, so I'll definitely look into the Vitamin D levels.

George999

You certainly were not completely negating the antibiotic by any means, just lessening the benefit slightly.

james1947

This topic is very important in my opinion.
If Dr. Levine known as one of the best experts in Peyronie's is saying that the cause of the disease are missing enzymes should be something in it.
Somebody get answer from  him regarding the subject?
Somebody read some newses in the subject?
I have found the attached file, very complicate for me but maybe this is the research that is related to the missing enzymes?
James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

George999

And of course the key question has to be "WHY are these enzymes missing?"  - George

danbon

Hey guys, it's been over a year since the last post about this subject. Did any of you finally get a chance to figure out what were the enzymes Dr. Levine was talking about?

yyy

Guys I'm 99% sure that peyronies is caused by an injury + low Testosterone and DHT and high Estrogens.
This combination become peyronies, but this is only my opinion.
I'm creating a topical gel with some useful ingredients for this disease, in addition to traction and stem cell injections.

MattFoley

YYY:

It depends on the person but yes pretty damn close. My Peyronie's was as a result of smoking cigarettes + low testosterone + high estrogen. The body perceived that combination as an "injury" and created the collagen to "fix" the problem. Oh, yeah, it fixed me real good. A bent dick and ED. Thanks for the love.
Got Testosterone?

yyy

man tgf beta is our target: we should try something that really decreases tgf beta.
I think our answer is ALK5 inhibitor; it's expensive and still in development, but this stuff can be the solution in my opinion.

james1947

Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum


james1947

yyy

Thanks for the links, I understand what it is. But now I have the next questions (sorry for my limited knowledge):
What is ALK5 inhibitor and how we can get hands on it? It will help dissolve plaques?

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

yyy

alk5 should be the target of this Kinase inhibitor.
Protein kinase inhibitors are  new small molecules tested for treating cancer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_kinase_inhibitor
I have a link in which I can buy it but only for research purpose:
https://www.miltenyibiotec.com/en/products-and-services/macs-cell-culture-and-stimulation/small-molecules/stemolecule-alk5-inhibitor.aspx
I'm really interested on trying it topically with DMSO but it's expensive and I don't know how many mg/g I should need

james1947

Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Youngdude22

Ver interesting article on alk5, seems like a worthy candidate for peyronies.

Scientists have identified a drug that rejuvenates ageing muscle and brain tissue - ScienceAlert


Found a site where you can buy alk5. Has anyone here tried with dsmo?

ALK5 Inhibitor I - ALX-270-448 - Enzo Life Sciences

Tunemaker02@aol.com

So, what does this mean for me?  I have a lower spine injury and have trauma to my urethra from surgery, and a fall on a bike seat injured

my pereneum and I am a survivor of a brutal sexual molestation in my teens: an attack on my groein: the "take a bow" bullying method of injuring my pereneum and penis root and postate gland. Will this new stem cell enzyme work for me?  Please help?

I'm a true believer, but often am suicidal from all of this.
Jamison

goodluck

My personal experience is also that Neprinol is useless for Peyronies.  The company should get slammed for advertising it as a solution.   It may be great at removing fibrinogen from the blood.

I am wondering if Levine is working on a product with a drug company and is waiting for patents to get approved before he will release this info to the public?

In any event I am on the edge of my seat waiting to learn of these enzymes.

A few years ago we had posts were people were discussing the possibility of Peyronies being an autoimmune conditions.  We seemed to get away from that but maybe we can circle back.

If you have one autoimmune condition it is very likely overtime you will develop another.........Often people will have one and not even know it for years as the symptoms are not very annoying at first.