Confusion Regarding Protocol

[Old Man]

MikeSmith:

I will answer your questions in the order you presented them:

1. IMHO, you should reduce the holding time from  30 - 45 seconds back down to 10 - 15 in lieu thereof and add more cycles of the pump up and holding time. This will give your penis much more stretching time and ''pull''. Overall the more cycles you do will give much better performance of the therapy.

2. OK, remember my caution throughout all posts about VED therapy where it is stated over and over. ''if you feel any pain or discomfort during any pumping cycle stop and find the cause before resuming pumping''. VED therapy pumping cycles should not produce any pain or discomfort with only mild to moderate vacuum pressure. Since you have a 90 degree curve, you should use only enough pressure to give a moderate ''pull'' with the vacuum. Once your curve starts to recede you can add more pressure if no pain exists, etc. Reducing the holding times stated above should reduce the possibility of receiving pain etc. You should feel some pull on the plaque area with the vacuum pressure, but not pain. So, again, use extreme caution not to overpump the pressure!

3. Your feeling a ''snap'' may or may not be a good thing. If it was the plaque sort of breaking loose, this could be good. However, if in the process it caused more trauma to your tissue, this could be causing further symptoms. So, by using more cycles with less pressure you should be getting better overall conditions leading to at least some relief from the symptoms.

Try my suggestions above for several days/weeks and observe if there is any change to the feelings you described in your post below. Hopefully, you will begin to see some positive results soon. Let me know if there is anything else I can help with in your case.

Old Man

[MikeSmith]

I am a couple weeks in to this & it's going well... just have 3 questions.

1-  The whole protocol now only takes me 15 minutes because I am more versed in getting an erection w/ the pump.  Is that not long enough of a session?  I am still holding it for 30-45 seconds each time I reach my maximum erect state.  Should I pump it a little slower or hold it longer?

2-  When I get to full size in the tube, I feel pain (not in a bad way) on my dorsal plaque.  Is this normal?  It feels like stretching sore hamstrings...it's not a bad pain but unusual to feel in the penis.  I have done this a number of times with no post-session discomfort or bruising, etc...Also, I have a 90 degree upward curve, but the tube doesn't allow for this to happen obviously...so I wonder if the pain is just the fact the tube is pushing down against the curve - which is probably a good thing?

3-  When I am at the fullest stretch, I've felt something like a rubber band shifting (didn't hurt) but scared me (like I overpumped things).  I've felt that 3 or 4 other times...and I wonder if that is familiar to anyone or what that could be... or if it's a warning sign I have gone too far.  Again, there were no negative effects after that shift (or snap - hard to describe) in terms of pain or bruising.

[Old Man]

Note to all:

I am highly recommending that you do not pull your penis out of the cylinder(s) while doing the entire pumping session. Just release the pressure with the button, hold it down (open) while holding the VED against your body to keep a good tight seal and let the pressure equalize in the cylinder. Wait for whatever time you feel comfortable with and then resume your pumping cycles. Again, be careful with the amount of vaccum used and do not overpump the pressure at any time, or else you will pay the consequences!!!

If you remove the whole VED from your shaft, you will most likely have to regain the size you accomplished in the first place before getting a good vacuum pull again. So, use your best judgement about times of relaxing from the cycles and the amounts of time you do the cycles. Base this on how your penis feels and reacts after each and every session. It is best to err on the side of caution than on the side of recklessness.

Old Man

PS: I speak from the voice of experience after many horrible results of being careless with the vacuum pressure!!!

[Skjaldborg]

because when I remove it from my body altogether it sort of sounds like a suction cup coming off...

My guess is that after releasing pressure from the valve that the chamber is actually at normal atmospheric pressure. However, when you remove yourself from the chamber, you are in effect lowering the pressure again (creating suction) because you create more space as you pull out of the VED while not adding a corresponding amount of air. When you pull out all the way, you hear the sound of air rushing in to the VED due to the slight vacuum you have created.

Perhaps one could hold the release valve while pulling out to normalize pressure?

-Skjald

[Angus]

30-35 minutes for a session is not unreasonable. A few minutes to pump an erection then hold for 30 or so seconds is not unreasonable. The thing to remember is to change your routine if something hurts, turns red or swells up or any other symptoms that you deem out of the ordinary for your body. Unlike rehab for shoulder surgery or the like, there is no rehab coach there with you helping with the VED (a good thing, IMO ha ha) so you have to adjust the time frames yourself to a system that you are comfortable with while staying reasonable and within the guidelines. We will do the best we can to talk about the protocol with the written word here, but in the end you must decide on a particular day whether you hold for 20 seconds, 30 seconds, 45 seconds or whatever.

[MikeSmith]

Angus, thanks for your help.  The last thing I just wanted to make sure I understood is if there is a time limit from the beginning I put it on and pump the first time to when I hit the black button to release the pressure.  So, if it takes 3 minutes to get an erection and then I hold it for 30 seconds, is that too long?  That would make the whole daily protocol 35 minutes then...just as an example.  It might take less time to get an erection though.

Oh - also , releasing the pressure via the black button still seems to leave some pressure - because when I remove it from my body altogether it sort of sounds like a suction cup coming off...so I've read (on here) not to remove it "all the way" in between cycles... but then again, that would mean some pressure is always on it thru the whole protocol.

What you said makes sense about taking it slow & the fact it's a rehab & learning experience...yeah, fastsize was (and still sometimes is) like that too.   I saw a video w/ Dr. Levine where he says this is all going to happen at "glacial speed" so I have to set my expectations for 2012...

[Angus]

Re: your questions:
1. A good stretch could be defined as an erection that doesn't hurt. An overstretch is when a few more pumps than necessary are applied. You would have pain in the penis and around the pubic bone, the skin would develop swelling (edema) and wouldn't be fun. These guidelines are to get people started and be safe; you must listen to your body and not go beyond safe limits and cause pain and swelling. A normal feeling in the VED is strange at first because of contact with the tube sides (smallest tube). The vacuum is pulling blood in as opposed to a natural erection that comes from your own blood pressure; getting used to that feeling is strange for some.

2. 30-45 seconds after you get the erection is what is meant. Take your time at first; there is no rush to erection. Get used to the feeling of the VED. Hold as long as you want to at first (up to 45 seconds). You may feel uncomfortable, but NOT in pain. If it hurts, stop and re-group, then start over after a short break. There is NO pain associated with any of the VED protocol done correctly.

3. Don't worry about a longer stretch at first. It will come with time. This is re-hab, and is not a fast process. Give your body time to adjust to what the VED is doing. Do not over pump but stick with daily use and practice; your body will respond if you stick with it. This is a critical time... lots of men feel frustrated and drop the VED some time around this point where you're at.
You're not using it wrong; you're just starting out.

[MikeSmith0]

Hi all -

I just got the VED to work yesterday finally... (I caved in and shaved my hair down to almost nothing- looks weird on me...since I am kinda hairy...but so does a C shaped penis - so I just gave up the hair issue).  

Anyway, I've had a bit of the same confusion as some of the others.  The guide that comes with the device says to pump 2-3 times, wait 10 seconds, and then pump 2-3 more times.  These instructions are for people buying it for ED - so I just followed that at first to "practice" essentially.  

1.  The first problem is that I can't figure out what is a "good" stretch and what is an "overstretch".  Nothing has hurt me yet (I was careful about this) - but I don't know if I'll have pain tomorrow.   Am I really supposed to feel hard like I'm having a sexually induced erection?  I could not pump more than 4 times w/o feeling uncomfortable...but not in pain.  I am not sure what feeling is normal and what means I should stop.

2.  Timing.  The protocol says I can leave it on for 10 seconds or 30-45 seconds. Is this AFTER I get a full erection?  Or, is this just after I feel the tension?  To get a full erection, it might take a few minutes.  I still wasn't able to achieve one (I was afraid to leave it on too long for my first try)

3.  My penis was getting any longer in the tube - I'm not sure why...perhaps it was a lube issue - but I did use a lot (I will use more tomorrow).  The thing is, it felt like the width was getting stretched so much that the fact it wasn't getting longer just made me think - I better not push my luck here.  It got wider and filled the A tube but it would not get longer at all - maybe 1/4"  longer at most (from the flaccid length) and I could've gotten maybe 2" longer if I had a true erection (on a good day).  

I like this device though...because I have a circumfrential plaque and I think it's stretching it a new way - could be quite complimentary to FastSize which just pulls.  I'll probably still use FS though, per Levine & my current Uro's urging (I have lost >1" in length since Peyronies Disease's onset.)  Anyway, any advice on the VED would be greatly appreciated.  I am looking forward to using it more.   I just don't want to overstretch & I cannot tell what is too much.  I also don't know why it is not getting longer in the A tube or if this even matters since I am getting wider.  Or, does this mean I am using it wrong?  

Thanks everyone for any advice!

(edit -- i found a few of my question answered in this thread so I deleted some questions: http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,1141.0.html)

[skunkworks]

I would not recommend dropping the sizing insert in favor of making your own. The difference you quote in your post is not enough to worry about. The blood will flow into the shaft even thought the sizing insert is a bit smaller. The smaller size helps hold the blood in the erectile chambers, so that is not a bad thing, in fact it helps. Just be sure that you only apply enough vacuum to promote good blood flow

The reason I am considering it is because when I get an erection I can see the line where the sizing insert ends, and my penis expands larger beyond it. This is an erection in no way connected to ved usage.

[Old Man]

skunkworks:

I would not recommend dropping the sizing insert in favor of making your own. The difference you quote in your post is not enough to worry about. The blood will flow into the shaft even thought the sizing insert is a bit smaller. The smaller size helps hold the blood in the erectile chambers, so that is not a bad thing, in fact it helps. Just be sure that you only apply enough vacuum to promote good blood flow.

Assuming that you are using the Vitality OTC three cylinder VED, it came with two sizing inserts. The smaller insert can be left out while using the small A cylinder since it might be too confining, but you must use the larger insert to prevent pinching of the skin when using the B and/or C cylinders. Have found only one or two guys who were simply just too large to use the small A cylinder. Care must be exercised when using the small A cylinder due to its size and confining area, etc. Plenty of lube is a must also to provide a very slippery surface for the shaft to slid into and out of the cylinder. Shaving cream has been used by some, but it really is not a good lubricant since it can and will dry easily which leads to more friction rather than lubricating factors.

No, Iceman has not contacted me lately about the VED assembly, protocol and/or usage. We have in the past PMd each other about some factors, though.

Old Man

[skunkworks]

The problem that I am running into is that the inside diameter of the sizing adapter for my VED is 1.75" while my penis diameter is between 1.8 and 1.9 depending on arousal level. I'm probably going to need to get rid of the sizing adapter and build my own rubber seal for the tube.

OldMan - Did Iceman contact you about making sure he was using the VED correctly?

[GS]

Fred,

No, the cylinder is plenty long for me; I was referring to girth and not length.

I do think I will try adding a couple of short pumps after 2 full pumps and see if I can a fuller erection.

Thanks to all for your impute and I have to say...I'm glad we have Old Man as a sounding board.

GS

[Old Man]

ymn:

Practice makes perfect is an old saw from way back! So, keep on practicing the exercises and modify them as you develop your own procedure that works best for you.

Yes, more lube does help with getting more of the shaft on out into the small A cylinder. It also helps with the B and C cylinders when you get into them later on in the protocol. The Walmart OTC Equate personal lubricant is about the best for the price there is out there. It is water soluble and does clean nicely with warm water and soap solution.

If you are not too far along in the protocol, I would suggest that you start over now that you have a better grasp of what you need to do.

Old Man

[YMENOW]

I am still learning how to post and apparently I screwed up using Newguy's protocol. 

I tried your therapy pumping slow over the 2 minutes and believed that I did get better stretch.  My stretch also improved with more lube....guess I was trying to save it, although I did get a great deal at Wal-mart like Old Man recommended!!  Thanks.

Am willing to try to improve and that also means with posting on this site.   Sorry.

ymn

[YMENOW]

. I tend to do lots of little pumps over the course of a couple of minutes and that seems to work for me. If you pump way too fast it might result in you reaching the same level of suction, but I doubt you'd have a good stretch within the tube.}

"The same level of suction" seems to confuse me.  I believe I pump 2 or 3 times in less than a minute where I do get engorged.  Then I release and wait 10 to 15 seconds and pump. 

I guess I will try and stretch it out hoping that I get more in the stretch.  Since I am in the beginning of the protocol, I am taking it easy and afraid to hurt myself.  I have enough other issues to deal with. 

It is good to hear from others' experiences with the protocol, since it definitely will help improve my therapy.

ymn

[Old Man]

Newguy:

You are entirely correct. Short pumps with a few seconds waiting time between them will give a better stretching action, especially in the small A cylinder. One thing that has not been mentioned lately is the lubrication in the small tube. Plenty of lubrication must, repeat, must be placed well up into the cylinder so that the penis head portion has a slippery surface to slide on and into. A dry cylinder wall will definitely cause the penis to stick and not stretch or expand properly.

So, bottom line, one must use a proper procedure when following the protocol to see the best results.

Old Man

[newguy]

I think the whole point of using the VED is that you effectively achieve an erection within the tube, which is held in place due to the restrictive nature of the tube. Of course for those using a very small tube, the penis will not have the appearance of a typical erection because it's restricted widthwise. It should though, surely be roughly stretched to the length of your penis, else I'm at a loss at where the stretch is actually occuring. If a person has a 6 inch penis, and while pumping they never get beyond 5 inches I don't think this can be deemed effective stretching. Of course I'm a relative notice at this, so others can chip in if I'm misrepresenting the process.

i've read a few people saying that they pump 2 or 3 times and then hold it. I'm not really familiar with that process. I tend to do lots of little pumps over the course of a couple of minutes and that seems to work for me. If you pump way too fast it might result in you reaching the same level of suction, but I doubt you'd have a good stretch within the tube.

[Fred22]

My penis gets enlarged to about the same size as an erection, but it's not really hard like an erection.  I completely fill the small cylinder and almost fill the medium.  I feel like I'm getting a good stretch as far as elongation is concerned and don't feel comfortable if I add more pressure.  When I first started the therapy, I was using more pressure and had some bruising and soreness.

When I remove the VED, my penis feels and looks like it is engorged with blood.  Then, by the time I'm finished with my shower and shaving, etc., it's pretty much normal size again.

I guess my bottom line is I'd rather err on the conservative side even if I have to do the protocol another 26 weeks and this first time through is just for practice.

It will be interesting to see how many of us are getting an actual erection with the VED and how many are like me; just getting enlarged.

GS

GS- You say you FILL THE A CYLINDER!  Do you mean lengthwise or girth or both?  I don't come anywhere near filling the cylinder lenthwise.

Fred

[lwillisjr]

If one can not get a natural erection, an erection developed by the VED can not and will not stay up after the penis is removed from the cylinder. So, those factors stated above should be taken into consideration where erections are concerned with VED therapy.

Old Man

In this case, I thought constriction bands were used to help hold the erection after VED removal.

[Old Man]

GS:

Some of the confusion about erections with the VED come from the fact that many guys do not get natural erections. Others may be taking meds for a heart condition or other malady that precluded getting a natural erection. Diabetes is one of the worst erection killers in the medical field. Type I is worse than Type II in that department.

If one can not get a natural erection, an erection developed by the VED can not and will not stay up after the penis is removed from the cylinder. So, those factors stated above should be taken into consideration where erections are concerned with VED therapy.

Radical prostate cancer surgery also precludes erections if the surgery was not a nerve sparing one. My surgery in 1995 left me totally void of any natural erections for many years. Now, with proper manual stimulation, I can get an erection, but must use a retainer ring to help hold it up long enough for sex. However, at almost 81 years old, natural erections would normally be few and far between anyway!!!

The above are just my observations from my experiences over the years since developing Peyronies Disease.

Old Man

[GS]

My penis gets enlarged to about the same size as an erection, but it's not really hard like an erection.  I completely fill the small cylinder and almost fill the medium.  I feel like I'm getting a good stretch as far as elongation is concerned and don't feel comfortable if I add more pressure.  When I first started the therapy, I was using more pressure and had some bruising and soreness.

When I remove the VED, my penis feels and looks like it is engorged with blood.  Then, by the time I'm finished with my shower and shaving, etc., it's pretty much normal size again.

I guess my bottom line is I'd rather err on the conservative side even if I have to do the protocol another 26 weeks and this first time through is just for practice.

It will be interesting to see how many of us are getting an actual erection with the VED and how many are like me; just getting enlarged.

GS

[newguy]

When you guys (Fred , GS) state that you don't get anything resembling an erection when using a VED, are you saying that your penis does not get much of a stretch in the VED? If this is the case, then I would say that maybe that could be an issue. I've just started on the VED again, and quickly remembered that it's important not to pump too fast, else the amount of stretch that I gained at a set pressure would differ each time. It doesn't sound like you are rushing the process at all, but you bring up an interesting point.

[Old Man]

Fred22:

OK, to answer your question about what results one should see with the A cylinder: The confined area of the A cylinder is designed that way to pull as much of your penis into the cylinder without any pain or discomfort and hold it straight. Since the penis is confined into such a small space, it will hold the shaft in as straight a shape as possible. This in time can and will cause the erectile tissue and tunica to be remoldled and possibly help straighten the shaft. Notice that I say possibly. There is no certain guarantee that the tissue will be straightened in all cases. Most cases do see some result in this area.

Further benefits of using the A cylinder will cause more blood to flow into the erectile tissue than with a normal erection. This added blood flow will make ones penis more healthy and can lead to better erections. Patience with VED therapy is a must, so don't get in a hurry and expect overnight changes. Peyronies Disease comes on slowly and most likely will go away slowly.

If you are experiencing much pain with VED therapy pumping cycles, you might be using too much vacuum pressure. VED therapy is a case where less is better than more. Just take it slow and easy and see what happens. Be glad to answer any and all questions, so feel free to ask.

Old Man

[GS]

Fred,

I'm in my 17th week and I still don't get anything close to a real erection.  I think you pump a couple of times, wait a few seconds and pump one more time and then hold the pressure for 15 to 30 seconds.  While holding the pressure, try "milking the VED".  That will add a little more pressure and help with getting the blood flowing without adding more pressure.

After you hold the pressure for the few seconds, release the pressure and start over.  After a few times of "pumping and holding", your penis will get bigger and bigger, but, based on my experience, not get a real erection.  Do the pump and hold about 15 or 20 times and call it a session.  It should only take about 15 to 20 minutes.

If you pump the pressure up too much, all you will get is pain and suffering.  Go slowly and relax while you're doing it and it will get easier and easier as you get used to it.

GS

[Fred22]

I've had my VED since December, but every time I start the protocol my pain increases and I stop.  I'm planning another attempt but I still have some confusion regarding what sort of results I'm looking for when pumping.  I just read a post by Angus who said to pump 2 or 3 times, wait a few minutes, pump a little more, etc. until you achieve (I believe these are his words), a rigid erection. I've asked Old Man about this before and he says not to try for a real erection with the A cylinder.  When I pump, my penis does get a little longer and the girth increases somewhat, but nothing like a real erection.  (I do still get nocturnal and AM erections).  Can someone please clarify once again exactly what results I should be looking for when pumping with the A cylinder...full rigid erection or slight engorgement?

Fred