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Author Topic: Non-supportive wife  (Read 741 times)

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GTJ0

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Non-supportive wife
« on: December 27, 2018, 01:58:43 PM »

Might anyone have advice with respect to a less-than fully-supportive wife? We’re both in our 50s, married for eleven years. We’re both Catholic, and prior to the wedding we had deep, mature, and serious discussions relating to our forthcoming marriage, its indissolubility, and our mutual promise to never abandon each other.

On one occasion while engaging with each other, a mishap occurred, causing me substantial pain. Nothing visibly obvious, and wife did not realize anything had gone amiss, so I brushed it aside at the time. It would not be until much later that I realized that Peyronies Disease was then setting in. It started with much pain when I would become erect; I did initially attempt to engage with my wife a few times, but it was difficult to do so. Having been well-equipped and strong in our relations to this point, this affliction felt embarrassing and threatening to me. At this point I just wanted what I thought would be just a passing phase to go away, and not to explain to my wife what I perceived to be a threat to our relationship. At the time I did not know what was going on (it would still be a while before I learned about Peyronies Disease), and for the immediate future I sought to avoid relations, at least until the pain would subside. I was later relieved when my wife later told me that her body was changing, was not having the same interest in conjugal relations, and which put off some of the internal pressure I had been putting on myself. Subsequently she told me that she had to relocate for professional (business) reasons, about two hours away. We continued to be with each other, generally on her days off, and it was during this time that the disease advanced to curvature and difficulty in attaining and achieving erection (something that had never before been an issue). But she was not pressuring me to engage, and so I continued to wait out what I still hoped was just a temporary and passing condition.

Eventually, I read-up about Peyronies Disease, consulted a urologist, and eventually worked up enough confidence to explain the situation to my wife. She explained to me that she wanted to see other people. Apparently, her menopause story was false, and that she actually does want an active sex life. She explained that marriage is all about what one receives out of the marriage (as opposed to what one puts into a marriage), and that she is not receiving enough sexual activity. She thought it was too bad that she had been part of the accident that had initially brought on the disease, but she said her “feelings” had changed, and she needs to take care of herself. Her family and friends appear to have taken the position that a woman always has the right to change her mind, without having to be supportive of her husband and marriage; that promises can always be broken, and that I should just “move on.” Our marriage was valid, and my Catholic faith precludes me from being with anyone else so long as my wife remains living.

Peyronies Disease commercials, videos, and this forum, are filled with stories of wives being supportive of their afflicted husbands. It also seems to me that, having participated in the activity that resulted in the initial injury resulting in harm, it is only fair and equitable that my wife be part of the treatment. So is it common that wives walk away from their afflicted husbands? Is the reaction of my wife, and her family and friends, typical? Should I try to persuade her to be supportive, not destructive, by using reason, morality, or perhaps professional psychological assistance? Should I just give up on her, and resign myself to spending the rest of my life separated and in solitude?
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Bubba dawg

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2018, 02:27:03 PM »

That is not correct about the catholic religion. You can get permission to have the marriage annulled 
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Hawk

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2018, 02:33:42 PM »

Half of wives and husbands with functional sex relations get divorced so who knows if you penis were perfect tomorrow if she would change her mind?  It seems her story about a lack of interest was false and that was before she even knew about your Peyronies Disease.  Maybe there is more going on than meets the eye.

If she loves you you can have fulfilling sex without a perfect penis.  If she doesn’t, it doesn’t matter what kind of penis you have.
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GTJ0

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2018, 03:18:32 PM »

You can get permission to have the marriage annulled

Actually, that’s not quite right. There’s no “permission,” or dispensation, that can be granted for the annulment of a marriage. Rather, one might petition the church to examine if a marriage was, in fact, validly contracted, and if found not to have been, then the putative marriage would be, and would always have been, a nullity. But if a marriage is valid, then the marriage cannot be annulled. See c. 1141 (“A marriage that is ratum et consummatum can be dissolved by no human power and by no cause, except death.”). However, I am not looking to examine or argue the validity of our marriage, but rather I am asking that the validity be assumed for the purpose of this inquiry.
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GTJ0

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2018, 03:29:26 PM »

It seems her story about a lack of interest was false and that was before she even knew about your Peyronies Disease.

I think that is correct. It was a condition unknown and embarrassing to me, and therefore I was hesitant to disclose. And with the condition present, I was not engaging in conjugal relations with her (it hurt!). But later, after I had found out what was going on, and after I explained to her, there was thereafter no support, no "I didn't realize what was going on" moment. It felt like abandonment.

So to the women who are reading this, what is the response when your husband withdraws, and only later discloses to you the Peyronies Disease factual cause of his withdrawal? Do you express understanding? Do you express disappointment that you weren't told earlier? Do you work to restore the relationship? Do you walk away?
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Bubba dawg

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2018, 03:43:03 PM »

Actually, that’s not quite right. There’s no “permission,” or dispensation, that can be granted for the annulment of a marriage. Rather, one might petition the church to examine if a marriage was, in fact, validly contracted, and if found not to have been, then the putative marriage would be, and would always have been, a nullity. But if a marriage is valid, then the marriage cannot be annulled. See c. 1141 (“A marriage that is ratum et consummatum can be dissolved by no human power and by no cause, except death.”). However, I am not looking to examine or argue the validity of our marriage, but rather I am asking that the validity be assumed for the purpose of this inquiry.

You think I just make stuff up? I know a couple who had been married with kids. Catholics. The husband got the marriage annulled so he could remarry with another catholic wedding. Worked for him
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50s
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80% back to normal

Stabler

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2018, 03:50:07 PM »

I am going to stop this right now...

This is not a topic to argue the catholic religion, this is to help this member with his marital issues and Peyronies. Lets stay on task please.

Stabler
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Hawk

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2018, 04:31:29 PM »

Bubba, a forum moderator said it was over with the previous post.  That did not mean one more post.  Your follow-up post on this topic was deleted. And this post does not warrant a response unless you want to send me a PM.  Do NOT hijack this member's topic.  Address his specific questions, not how you think you know more about his faith than he does.
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Stabler

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2018, 04:48:36 PM »

GTJO,

As sad as it is, there are wives/partners that do not stay, that feel sex is more important than the rest of the relationship not all but yes there are some. I do think that there may be more going on than you are aware of. If she came to you saying that she was un-interested in intimacy prior to knowing about the Peyronies, then after finding out states that she wants to see other people, I feel like it has little to do with the Peyronies itself.

Depending on the extent of your injury there are treatments that you can try. You have said that you saw a urologist, does he specialize in Peyronies disease? If he does not then you should seek one that does, we have a list here in the forum. http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,4063.0.html

Stabler
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GTJ0

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2018, 05:45:19 PM »

As sad as it is, there are wives/partners that do not stay, that feel sex is more important than the rest of the relationship not all but yes there are some. I do think that there may be more going on than you are aware of. If she came to you saying that she was un-interested in intimacy prior to knowing about the Peyronies, then after finding out states that she wants to see other people, I feel like it has little to do with the Peyronies itself.

My sense is that is was the symptoms of Peyronies Disease (e.g., withdrawal, depression), rather than her knowledge of the existence of Peyronies Disease itself, that inspired her extramarital thoughts. So the question is, once one's spouse becomes aware of the non-volitional cause of the symptoms (i.e., is told of the existence of Peyronies Disease), and that the cause is not something blame-worthy, should those extramarital thoughts not dissipate?

Quote
Depending on the extent of your injury there are treatments that you can try. You have said that you saw a urologist, does he specialize in Peyronies disease?

I have been seeing a urologist with a good overall reputation in the field, but I have come to believe that he does not do a lot with Peyronies Disease itself. His initial reaction to my photographs and description were to prescribe Cialis immediately, but not do anything more. Independent intervening medical matters, with much higher priority resulting in medically-necessary surgeries, have prevented me from following through, but I am now convalescing from the second of those surgeries, and am looking at other urologists here in Queens County, New York. (The list here, for New York, is a bit discouraging as to attention given, results, and cost. The Xiaflex website shows one urologist in Queens who has prescribed that drug, suggesting that physician is particularly knowledgeable about Peyronies Disease.)
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Stabler

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2018, 06:56:41 PM »

Dr Eid in NY is very highly recommended in the forum. If your current urologist did not offer anything other than Cialis, then yes, you need to seek someone else. If you can tell us what symptoms you currently have and for how long you have been dealing with this, the forum can help guide you in what options there are for you in regards to treatment.

As for your wife, Depression and becoming withdrawn are common feelings when dealing with Peyronies, How long do you think you were being withdrawn from your wife and did she ever come to you and try to find out why? I think that if she is willing to talk about this with you, maybe you can help her understand there is alot to be learned at this point for you and her, and you would like her support. Now, I cannot speak for your wife, but I can tell you that we have had other wives/partners that felt like they weren't wanted when they husband/partner withdrew. Some thought that their spouses were having affairs. Being open with each other is going to be so important. but I feel like your biggest conversation right now has to be where she is going to be in all of this in regards to supporting you and helping you. I personally, would not choose being with other people while married, but I also would not be a woman that is un-supportive, you need to find out where your wife stands in this area. This can be a hard issue for couples, it takes understanding and patience on everyones part, but it can be handled.

Stabler

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GTJ0

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2018, 08:35:01 PM »

If you can tell us what symptoms you currently have and for how long you have been dealing with this, the forum can help guide you in what options there are for you in regards to treatment.

I am not entirely certain of the extent of my present symptoms since it has been about a year since my last erection, which coincided with the last time I engaged in conjugal relations with my wife. It took a while to become erect, and not as sturdy as in years past. I was curved upward by about 30 degrees, making it awkward to penetrate, but no present pain. I had previously been erect when photographing myself prior to the urologist visit; the length of time it required was excessive, with the size, length and girth, seemingly reduced modestly. Given the absence of regular conjugal relations, the symptoms are neither observed nor bothersome. If the martial relationship does not improve, then there may be no need for treating a disused organ.

Quote
As for your wife, Depression and becoming withdrawn are common feelings when dealing with Peyronies, How long do you think you were being withdrawn from your wife and did she ever come to you and try to find out why? I think that if she is willing to talk about this with you, maybe you can help her understand there is alot to be learned at this point for you and her, and you would like her support. Now, I cannot speak for your wife, but I can tell you that we have had other wives/partners that felt like they weren't wanted when they husband/partner withdrew. Some thought that their spouses were having affairs. Being open with each other is going to be so important. but I feel like your biggest conversation right now has to be where she is going to be in all of this in regards to supporting you and helping you. I personally, would not choose being with other people while married, but I also would not be a woman that is un-supportive, you need to find out where your wife stands in this area. This can be a hard issue for couples, it takes understanding and patience on everyones part, but it can be handled.

I would say several months I was avoiding relations. Summer was easier to avoid, as I was able to explain that it was too hot to engage (which is entirely true, as I am excessively sensitive to heat). I might also have stayed up late working, knowing that she probably be too tired. The passing years make it difficult to remember all the details accurately. But I do know she never asked why. I felt so insecure, knowing that I was very large, aggressive, and enduring to the point of literally wearing her out (I learned that she boasted this to many of her friends), and this expectation of hers I could not do. I was afraid of rejection, that she would abandon me if she found out that could no longer satisfy her. Better, I thought, to keep this hidden until it got better on its own, and never have to explain or deal with what I thought was a momentary lapse in my ability. And it did not become difficult to do this given her story of her own body changes.

(I should add also in some additional complications. A few years prior my wife experienced a psychotic break, and was hospitalized with hallucinations and delusions for a period of time. After being released from the hospital, she began abusing alcohol, getting drunk nearly every night, making serious conversation difficult. Prior to marriage she had never drunk; I do not drink at all.)

Her decision to separate herself came suddenly, as it she were influenced by friends or family trying to "help" her. I have no doubt whatsoever that she ever suspected me of having an extramarital affair myself, and she has always respected my integrity and morals. Rather, it is all about her wants, not any transgressions of mine. Presently, she believes herself to no longer be unmarried, and therefore available to date other men. In fact, our eleventh anniversary was last month, and no formal actions have been taken with respect to the status of our marriage, or even as to separation.
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TonySa

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2018, 11:43:30 PM »

Would you both consider couples/marriage counseling to work on the known and unknown issues?
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GTJ0

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2018, 10:18:43 PM »

We have seen a marriage therapist (an LMFT-certified J.D., not a Psy.D.), chosen primarily for her faith-based values as to marriage and its indissolubility (I have a perception that many marriage therapists simply look to facilitate, if not advocate, divorce and provide evidence for one side in subsequent judicial proceedings), rather than for any particular expertise in medicine or psychology generally. This therapist is intelligent, and can direct conversation effectively, but there has not been any focus on the psychological effects of the physical impairment, or the culpability of the person having the impairment. Having now read the fact sheet from the Urology Care Foundation relating to Peyronies Disease, and its suggestion in seeking out therapists specializing in discussing sexual issues, I have found a possible near-by therapist, who is certified in both marital and sex therapy ("[which] allows me to the opportunity to address all issues, problems and difficulties that couples may have"), professor and department head at a respected NYC-area university, and describes his practice as addressing "the full range of relationship and intimacy issues for both heterosexual and same sex couples including extramarital affairs and sexual dysfunctions; . . . depression; . . . and the full range of mental health issues . . . ." (I've reached out by e-mail, but no response yet, possibly because of the Christmas holiday season.) So I will try to see if this avenue may also be helpful, and if my wife will give it a try (her response could be that we already have a marriage therapist, so why do we need someone else?).
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TonySa

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2018, 04:41:29 PM »

Sounds like a great idea.  If that’s her response I’d just explain everything you did here, esp the part that he naturally includes sexuality into the counseling.  Good luck!
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Stabler

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2018, 04:46:25 PM »

You have done a lot of work to try and rebuild your marriage, you should be proud of that. I hope that she will respond in kind and give it a chance.

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Moderator since 2015- Missouri- I work in the medical field and have strong knowledge of insurance and how to obtain coverage for medication and other treatments. Being a woman I do not have Peyronies but you can ask me anything. I am happy to help.

GTJ0

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2018, 11:58:51 PM »

The kind words of support are most appreciated; thank you.

Earlier this evening I tried to get a photograph or two, to illustrate to intended professionals the state of my current condition. There was a slight response, and the curve was there, but the erection was very weak, relatively short and thin, fell almost immediately, and nothing could raise it again. This response is so different from what I had always been used to before, and what had always brought much pleasure to my wife, that by itself it brings such insecurities. Then with one of the recent responses from my wife (paraphrasing slightly), "well, you're not going to need it anymore with me, so quite worrying about it," it becomes so depressing.
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skunkworks

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2018, 02:44:52 AM »

That is cold hearted...

Stabler

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2018, 04:53:33 AM »

I am very sorry that she is being so cold to you. It should not be this way and it doesn’t seem like she knew what marriage meant. I know this is not what you were hoping for and from the sound of it she is not going to be going with you to counseling although you have not mentioned if she responded to that. It will be hard to do but for now why don’t we try to focus on helping you right now and discuss some treatment options. Have you looked through our list of urologists to see if one is close to you and did you look up Dr Eid? You should read our boards on VED and traction protocols and our Oral meds boards too. I know you are depressed but we need to put you first right now so search the forum and post questions on the boards I have suggested on treatments. There is a lot of help here. I am in now way minimizing your marriage, but you need to take care if you right now.

Stabler
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GTJ0

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2018, 07:06:57 AM »

Stabler, thank you again for words that are both kind and thoughtful.

I have to disagree with you as to my wife's understanding of marriage. At the time we were married, we were both older in our fourties), and we were capable of understating. It was, in fact, a very important issue for us, especially the matter of its indissolubility (but also of all the other essential elements of a valid marriage), going beyond the rote instruction in the pre-Cana classes. I am sensitive to this subtle distinction distinction because failure to understand marriage at the time of marriage is a ground for annulment, but subsequent events do not provide a ground for annulment. Several years into our marriage she had a psychotic break, became addicted to alcohol, and thereafter changed her understanding of marriage. It is my duty, as her wedded husband, to stand beside her, both in good times and bad . . . marriage is a sacrament.

I am not certain that everything she says comes from herself, and I think other people may be trying to influence her for their own purposes. For example, as a general matter, my wife is not interested in news or politics. Yet in a conversation we were having about our marriage, she blurted out that (1) our marriage should be annulled because Judge Kavanaugh was nominated and confirmed to the U.S. Supreme Court, and (2) I am mentally ill because I watch Fox News, am politically conservative, and generally support the president. The statements were, of course, non-sequiturs, irrelevant, and not things that she follows or has any interest. My suspicion is that there are people in Manhattan who are taking advantage of the vulnerabilities of my wife, and seek to break-up our marriage so to "punish" someone they know who has different political views. Thus, I do not believe that she means everything that she says.

It is possible that my wife will be part of psychological counseling. She participated in therapy before, so we shall see. One of the things I do for a living is persuading other people.

I will be looking around for urological care. It will take me a little bit of time to do my due diligence. There does not appear to be any particular urgency on this (I am in the chronic phase, and there is no longer any pain), so I don't need to rush. Right now I have bandages on my chest from a surgery performed a week ago . . . and I still have another five weeks before I am expected to back in good shape on that. And I am not doing well financially these days, so I have to be careful as to what I can afford.
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Stabler

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Re: Non-supportive wife
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2018, 08:49:20 AM »

I understand. I was not aware you had, had surgery only a week ago, yes it is important to heal from that first, but you don't want to put treatment off indefinitely as it can have permanent affects. I am also happy that you feel your wife may go to counseling with you. Outside influences can be a hard thing to have to deal with.

Please continue to look through and post in the forum, feel free to PM me or any of the members if you need to or want to.

Stabler
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Moderator since 2015- Missouri- I work in the medical field and have strong knowledge of insurance and how to obtain coverage for medication and other treatments. Being a woman I do not have Peyronies but you can ask me anything. I am happy to help.
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