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Author Topic: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.  (Read 1549 times)

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ruff

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Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« on: November 02, 2018, 07:46:09 AM »

Hey everyone,

I am going to Dr. Lander for stem cells next week. I am planning to couple it with traction (Penimaster Pro 3-6 hours/day), pentoxyfilline, and Neo40 nitric oxide.

Situation:

Lateral Curvature 45 degrees and Ventral Curvature 45 degrees. 7 years (chronic phase). Early 20's. Traction has not helped so far.

Wish me luck guys. Doing everything I can to avoid surgery.
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Gabriel

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2018, 10:09:38 AM »

Hey Ruff,

Looks like a perfect combat plan. I am convinced that stem cells + traction with PMP (one of the best devices) + pentox will produce an improvement.

Just be patient, and be strong!!

Good luck,

G
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- 31 yo, very healthy lifestyle, Peyronies Disease with Erectile Dysfunction, pain, distal hourglassing & length loss since 09/01/17, still acute.
- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

Christopher1

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2018, 02:58:41 PM »

Stem cells are the future.

I am currently in a clinic and we are using stem stells to treat patients with COPD (crazy, I know) and ligaments of the spine.

I am positive they will be increasingly used in the penis. This is coming FAST. Stem cells are easily available nowadays in the US.
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Snake Diet + prolonged fasting (4-day fasts for autophagy - snake juice only / no coffee). Also use a Jeanie Rub variable speed massager for circulation of the penis - and occasional ice baths (never ice baths while fasting).

JS1991

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2018, 04:28:34 PM »

Christopher, that is interesting. What kind of results are you seeing on patients with COPD? Do you pull the cells from fat or bone marrow? I'm assuming you are administering via IV?

ruff, best of luck!
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james1947

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2018, 09:03:39 PM »

Good luck Ruff :)
Please update us how is going.

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

ruff

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2018, 01:38:49 AM »

Hey Everyone. Here is an update 11 days post stem cell procedure.

Procedure went alright. The shockwave machine broke unfortunately so he just did the stem cells and ‘extra’ needling. He said he stuck the needle in about 30 times. My plaque is at the proximal penis dorsal and ventral so that’s where he injected. My penis was black and blue with swelling around the site of injection for 5 days. Had sex on the 6th day and it was fine. My biggest concern right now is that my penis is still sore at the site of injection, especially when erect. It’s only been 11 days so I’m hoping the pain goes away soon.

No noticeable change in curvature so far. Erections are the same hardness.

I haven’t started traction yet because the pain is still there. I plan to start traction as soon as the pain goes away. I have been continuing pentoxyfilline + Neo40

In terms of the liposuction, it went smooth. I’m really skinny so it was more uncomfortable than for most patients according to Dr. Lander. Liposuction was taken from my back (love handle area). Still lumpiness and swelling with a small scab. Also painful to press against.

Please lmk if you have any questions guys.

Will update in a few weeks/ months.

Ruff
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JS1991

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2018, 04:17:33 AM »

My clinic advised me to stay away from blood thinners (like Pentox) in the initial days afterwards, did you ask Lander about that? Good luck!
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ruff

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2018, 12:19:45 PM »

What is the reason for that? I didn’t ask Dr Lander about that.

Have you seen results so far?

Thank you
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ruff

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2018, 12:22:49 PM »

My clinic advised me to stay away from blood thinners (like Pentox) in the initial days afterwards, did you ask Lander about that? Good luck!

Also should I be worried about the pain? I still have pain at the site of injection 12 days after the procedure
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JS1991

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2018, 03:37:55 PM »

ruff, I'm not sure the reason for that but I did discontinue Pentox on my doctor's orders after my treatment. I did get results, about half an inch girth gain in my most major area of hourglassing, biggest dent filled in a bit, overall feeling of skin in said hourglass went from a sandpapery feel to a more smooth feel. Getting another round of treatment soon.

In terms of pain, I did have some as well but I was also told to abstain from all sexual activity and not touch my penis for a week so that helped. Minor pain for me around the injection side which went away after abit (even had little grain-of-rice sized lumps at injection site that disappeared as well). I do wish they had done shockwave for you, it's BS that their machine broke. They help the stem cells target into the penis and stay there better. But I didn't get the shockwave either, for what it's worth.
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Christopher1

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2018, 11:55:56 PM »

Very good results.

I have seen them used IV as well as inhaled (and obviously injected). We use embryonic stem cells. Not from fat.
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Snake Diet + prolonged fasting (4-day fasts for autophagy - snake juice only / no coffee). Also use a Jeanie Rub variable speed massager for circulation of the penis - and occasional ice baths (never ice baths while fasting).

Christopher1

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2018, 11:59:06 PM »

The shockwave therapy should ideally be done before. 1 or 2 sessions before is fine.

You want to create a bit of inflammation so the stem cells have something to react to. With that said - it really is not necessary. Also, do not take any drugs like pentox after the stem cells for a good 3 weeks. Just let the cells do what they do best. By killing inflammation with pentox, you may actually be blunting the affect stem cells have. (This is all hypothetical. No studies to prove it, but it makes sense physiologically.)

All that said - I am sure you did fine. Personally, I prefer embryonic stem cells.
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Snake Diet + prolonged fasting (4-day fasts for autophagy - snake juice only / no coffee). Also use a Jeanie Rub variable speed massager for circulation of the penis - and occasional ice baths (never ice baths while fasting).

Juice

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2018, 08:05:04 AM »

Ruff, I hope all is well. Please let us know how the treatment went and how it’s going? I spoke with a Dr Zahalsky who is affiliated with amniotic fluids being used for treatments. The claim is 7 of 10 human trials have seen the plaque completely disappear after three months!  So I am dying to know your results!   Dr Zahalsky Seems very passionate about Peyronies he seemed to understand the stages and the mental drain it carries. However after the Gainswave, PRP, Traction cash cow roller coaster I’ve been on, I am still searching for the light at the end of the tunnel.  It’s getting dark so please anything you can share please do.
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ruff

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2018, 12:10:41 PM »

ruff, I'm not sure the reason for that but I did discontinue Pentox on my doctor's orders after my treatment. I did get results, about half an inch girth gain in my most major area of hourglassing, biggest dent filled in a bit, overall feeling of skin in said hourglass went from a sandpapery feel to a more smooth feel. Getting another round of treatment soon.

In terms of pain, I did have some as well but I was also told to abstain from all sexual activity and not touch my penis for a week so that helped. Minor pain for me around the injection side which went away after abit (even had little grain-of-rice sized lumps at injection site that disappeared as well). I do wish they had done shockwave for you, it's BS that their machine broke. They help the stem cells target into the penis and stay there better. But I didn't get the shockwave either, for what it's worth.

Hey JS, how long did it take for those grain-of-rice sized lumps and pain to go away? One month out and I still have it
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ruff

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2018, 12:22:34 PM »

1 MONTH OUT UPDATE

Hey everyone. Im 1 month out from the stem cell procedure. Here is an update.

Pain is still there around the injection site when erect. The lumps at the injection site have become smaller but they are still there. Another thing is a hard bead has appeared in the middle ventral part of my penis. It is especially prominent when erect. It appeared after 2 weeks and has gotten slightly bigger. I called Dr. Lander and he said it is probably a minor blood clot.

Unfortunately my curvature has not improved at all since the procedure. In fact, it seems to have gotten worse. The girth seems to be a slightly larger and erections are better. I have been taking Neo40 everyday since the procedure as well, so that could be why my erections are better. I have also been heating my penis everyday.

I am flying out to see Dr. Lander on Tuesday so he can examine my concerns.

I am starting traction today. I am going to do around 3 hours at 400-600g to start up, and may increase this after 1 month.

If this doesnt work, I will likely get plication with Dr. Gelman (possibly grafting with that guy in Rio De Janeiro)


Stay strong everyone!
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JS1991

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2018, 05:08:11 PM »

Hey, can you explain your exact Peyronie's symptoms?
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ruff

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2018, 11:55:58 AM »

Hey, can you explain your exact Peyronie's symptoms?

Before the procedure I had a 45 degree lateral and 45 degree ventral curvature. Now it appears that my curvature has increased to a 60 degree lateral curvature.

The symptoms I currently have are pain when erect. My plaque is at the proximal penis so the injection was there. There is also lumps at and around the injection site. It becomes abnormally  stiff and painful when erect
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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2018, 05:19:17 AM »

Thanks for the reply. I don't like the sound of the lumps around the injection site, the new "hard bead" or the pain. My gut is telling me that the "extra needling" they did in place of the ultrasound could be the cause of that.

Another cause could be something similar to what RD experienced (the member who cured his Peyronie's with stem cells). He had plaques appearing and disappearing all over his penis for two years until he was finally good to go. Something I want to note in his case that I just realized and have never seen brought up: RD started intermittent fasting as well during those years, so that could have played a role in his success.

Also, I know this is a little left field, but I've been looking into the snake diet and I feel like it can really help you with your current situation via autophagy (won the nobel prize in medicine 2016). It isn't really a diet, it's more of a method of extended fasting. Look it up on youtube and be your own judge.
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ruff

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2018, 06:54:21 PM »

Quote deleted by moderator! Please read the forum rules!

Interesting about the Snake diet. I will look into it. I have been doing intermittent fasting since August and it hasn't helped my peyronies disease so far.

The hard bead is almost gone after I started traction a couple days ago which is great. It was pretty big before but now its very tiny. However, the lumps are still there and it is painful. I am really hoping that the plaques dont appear and disappear for 2 years like RD. My curvature has gotten worse and I want to have surgery in March-May timeframe. I was in the chronic phase for 4 years and if I transition to the active phase due to this procedure, I will be really upset since it could delay when I can have surgery. I really hope these lumps go away soon. Will keep everyone updates. Thanks for the support.
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JS1991

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2018, 07:10:48 PM »

That's great news that the the hard bead is disappearing, but the curvature issue is very weird to me. I think it is possible their "needling" could have put you back into acute phase, but it's more likely that this will pass soon-ish. Also, the snake diet is not intermittent fasting, it's extended fasting for as long as you can go (I'm about to do a 50-100 day water fast with my next stem cell treatment. I can only do this because I'm fat lol). Good luck and keep us updated!
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ruff

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2018, 09:31:05 PM »

Update.

My curvature has gotten much worse. He injected above the focal point and now there are two points of curvature. Pretty upset. If this does not get better in two months, I highly recommend not getting stem cell therapy with Dr. Lander. Really feeling down right now. I told Dr. Lander about the increase in curvature and he said its because he feels the plaque is disappearing and his stem cells are working. Im sorry but that is just complete BS. Had shockwave as well a few days ago. I also felt rushed both visits

My biggest regret is not having surgery with Dr Gelman last year
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ruff

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2018, 07:01:46 PM »

Just spoke with Dr. Lue. He was understandably pissed that I went against his recommendation and got stem cells which are not FDA approved vs Xaiflex. He said to wait a few more weeks to let it heal before doing any more treatment. Im lost right now. I dont know what to do. Im just really scared that Dr. Lander permanently damaged my penis.
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JS1991

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2018, 07:51:43 PM »

Of course he was pissed, most urologists will never recommend getting anything done not FDA approved, including mine. I do want to note that in my opinion, your new injury was due to what they described as "extra needling" (why on earth would anyone stick a needle into a Peyronie's ridden penis more than necessary) and not the actual stem cells injected into you, since I've never heard of this reaction ever in any of my research, but I have read of injections causing multiple cases of Peyronie's disease. In fact, I've decided not to self-inject myself next month and only do shockwave+IV stem cells for my next treatment because of what happened to you. If any of you remember, one of the reasons I wanted to go to Landers' clinic originally was because of their "injection technique" that I had read people speaking of, but I now believe it is misguided and excessive. At the clinic I went to, they refused to give me more than 4 carefully done shots (2 near tip, 2 near base) because of risk of further injury and their belief that the cells would travel throughout the entire shaft regardless of where they were injected. I actually had to request the additional 2 shots I had done near the tip as they usually only inject at the base.

Regardless, you're in a very tough situation right now: you spent a lot of money on a treatment and ended up hurting yourself even more. That is a recipe that kills hope; I sympathize with you greatly. I'll repeat my recommendation of fasting, only because I truly believe it will help you and you have nothing to lose, and I'll advise you to 1) give it time to heal then reassess and 2) until then, keep your mental state under control and do not allow yourself to be lost in misery. This is very important.
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ruff

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2018, 12:30:38 AM »

Quote deleted by moderator!
For some reason you didn't want to read and comply with the forum rules!


Thank you so much JS. I have been extremely depressed lately and your responses make me feel like I am not alone. I am wondering, how long do you think until it heals fully and I can have surgery? Do you remember how fast it was until the swelling and those bumps on your penis from the injection went away?


On a side note, my left testical is hurting. Dr. Lander moved the shockwave machine partially over my left testical when trying to go over my penis. After going through all of this, it is clear to me that Dr. Lander is extremely incompetent and just money hungry. Please, nobody go to Dr. Lander.

May I also ask JS, why have you not mentioned surgery? Is this not an option you are considering?
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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2018, 03:15:52 AM »

Yes the swelling/lump was gone after a month, it was similar to a small grain of rice but it’s gone now. I’ve never considered surgery because my main symptoms are due to CPPS, my curve is minimal, and I’m mostly battling hourglass, inflammation and girth loss. I can still have sex.
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curved

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2018, 09:58:24 AM »

Just to add my 2 cents on stem cell treatment.... I would put it in the same category as PRP and for me was not successful.  Perhaps even more disappointing was what the doctor mentioned to me in passing as I finished up my stem cell injections 3 months ago.  He indicated that of the 70% success they have had treating Peyronies 60% comes from the ESWT and 10% from the stem cells.  He may have mispoken but I was dismayed as I had told him I had tried ESWT prior with no success. I wouldn't say I have digressed but I certainly haven't improved.
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51 yrs old; diagnosed 3.5 yrs ago; 90 degree upward bend
But I had no Erectile Dysfunction
tried all pills, VED, traction, Xiaflex PRP, ESWT, H-100 & stem cells; IF diet. implant surgery with Dr. Eid 3/28/19
to correct deformity - 20 CM Titan 2cm RTE / 1 cm RTE

JS1991

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2018, 04:57:39 PM »

curved, thank you for the update! The stats you present are interesting, but as you say I doubt ESWT can be responsible for a 60% success rate. Perhaps it was the other way around?
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curved

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2018, 10:27:14 AM »

JS- you may be right although I am pretty sure I heard him correctly.  Essentially that stem cells added to the ESWT increases successful outcomes by an additional 10%. Regardless, at this point, given my experience I would not be surprised if they were exaggerating their "success". I do hope this treatment works for others should they choose to try it. Unfortunately for me it did not and it is fairly expensive ($6k+)
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51 yrs old; diagnosed 3.5 yrs ago; 90 degree upward bend
But I had no Erectile Dysfunction
tried all pills, VED, traction, Xiaflex PRP, ESWT, H-100 & stem cells; IF diet. implant surgery with Dr. Eid 3/28/19
to correct deformity - 20 CM Titan 2cm RTE / 1 cm RTE

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2018, 09:58:41 PM »

Hard to understand how stem cells could make it worse. Very strange. What kind of stem cells were they? Embryonic?

How many times did he inject you? Did he "dry needle"? It sounds like he was dry needling through Buck's fascia.
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Snake Diet + prolonged fasting (4-day fasts for autophagy - snake juice only / no coffee). Also use a Jeanie Rub variable speed massager for circulation of the penis - and occasional ice baths (never ice baths while fasting).

Werther

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Re: Traction + Stem Cells. Will update on results.
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2018, 10:33:24 AM »

Hard to understand how stem cells could make it worse.

Personally, I think it's hard to understand why they should work for Peyronie's since there's currently no single study done on humans that proved their efficacy (except for Zahalsky's known paper, which, anyhow, sounds like it was totally made up).

If stem cells injections into or around plaques sound so promising and are even currently used in clinics for penile fibrosis (like Lander's one), why there's not one single randomized double blind placebo control study with large patients' samples in both groups?

Current stem cells injections sound totally like PRP with regards to their real efficacy. They'd better be called scam cells.
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