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Author Topic: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study  (Read 1778 times)

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Asian Eagle

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Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« on: October 19, 2018, 12:16:28 AM »

CASE REPORT
A  40-years  male  patient  of  Kolkata  metro  region,  attended Hospital OPD of National Research Institute of Ayurvedic Drug Development,  Kolkata,  with  complain  as  follows:    Unusual angulation of the penile shaft when erect, pain during erections and/or  during  sex.  Patient  felt  difficulties  while  on  sexual activity and gradually  developed  plaques with slightly bending since  6  months. Patient did  not  have  any history of  injury. On examination he revealed; height 1.7 m, body weight 71 kg (BMI 24.57 kg/m2), Scarring or  plaque palpated at  the abnormal bend or  angle  of  the  penis,  palpable  of  an  indentation  of  the  penis shaft  at  the  site  of  the  plaque  or  scarring  & inability  to  have intercourse.  He  had  a  treatment  history  of  vitamin ‘E’ supplementation  along  with  some  Non-steroidal  anti-inflammatory  drugs  and  anti-biotic  for  15  days.  He  found euglycaemic and normotensive. He  was habituated to take non-veg diet, and smoking 3-4 cigarette per day. He had an irregular bowel  problem  with  normal  bladder  and  adequate  sleeping habits. Family history was not suggestive.

Manual examination revealed; 10  no. of  plaques on ventral  part and 7  no. of plaques on  dorsal part of the penis by stretching it with  one  hand  and  gently  compressing  the  shaft  between  the fingers  and  thumb  of  the  other  hand.  Localized  tenderness elicited  on  superficial  palpation  and  20  to  30  degree  of  the penile curvature has  been  observed  and  the  presence of  penile shortening  was  not  remarkably  identified.  There  was  no established abnormality disclosed during systemic examination.

Laboratory investigation : A  Biopsy  sent  for  study  and  found  to  be  scar  tissue  and diagnosed as  Peyronie’s disease.  Human cell  antigen, HLA-B7 has  not  been  associated  with  the  disease.  USG  of  penis  with high  frequency  (7.5-12MHz)  linear  high  transducer  suggested penile  plaques,  seen  as  focal  hyper  echoic  thickening  of  the tunica albuginea, exhibiting strong echogenicity with substantial attenuation of the acoustic beam.

Treatment  plan :The  case  was  prescribed  with  Kanchanar Guggulu at a dosage of 1 gm. thrice daily with Luke warm water after food for 6 weeks and followed up  for another two weeks. He also advised to attend the OPD at an interval of one week.

RESULT : Based  on  the  schedule  of  the  administration  of  drug  and assessment  criteria  the  case  was  clinically  assessed  on  every week till the end of 8 weeks. There was reduction in the number and  size  of  plaques  observed  after  2  weeks  of  treatment  and remarkably reduction noticed at the end of 6 weeks. Pain during erection of penis observed after  1 week  of treatment. Curvature of  penis  reduced  remarkably up  to 10  degrees  after  6  week  of treatment.  Correction  of  erection  also  found  improved  after  6 weeks  of  treatment.  USG  done  after  6  weeks  of  treatment revealed  the  two  corpora  cavernosa  are  homogenous  in  echo texture and identified as two hypo echoic circular structure. The tunica albuginea is  visualized as  linear as  hyperechoic structure covering the corpora cavernosa.
The various actions  attributed by the  drug  are due to  analgesic and  anti-inflammatory,  anti-microbial,  Hypolipidemic, fibrinolytic  and  anti-tumor  activities  of  various  ingredients present in the  formulation.  The  main pathogenesis  involved in the  Peyronies Disease  is  atheroma,  vasculitis  and  auto  immune  factors.  The drug  might  have  reversed the  exact  path  way  involved  in  the genesis of disease. From  this  investigation, it  observed that,  there  is a  significant progress  noticed  in  respect  of  overall  clinical  assessment criteria.

FULL Article Link : https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301646956_CLINICAL_EFFICACY_OF_A_TRADITIONAL_AYURVEDIC_COMPOUND_ON_PEYRONIE'S_DISEASE_A_CASE_STUDY
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Two things are to be noted : 1. These morons are too lazy so tested this on only one man. 2. He took vitamin E and some other medicines for 15 days before this anceint treatment, so may be this result can be due to those medicines also.

But still we should give it a try. When i searched the medicine on google, its one dollar $1 medicine for one month, LOL. Unfortunately its not available in my country.
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TonySa

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2018, 02:43:29 PM »

Any early intervention w an anti inflammatory may have had the same effect, but still interesting.  Probably only one patient as a doc just wrote up his patient as a case study because there was some success.  Next step would be a study.
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JS1991

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2018, 04:11:48 PM »

Interesting. I might add this to my treatments, just because! Can't hurt.
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Gabriel

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2018, 04:39:46 AM »

Hey Asian Eagle,

Very interesting, thank you!!!

This may be definitly worth the try.

Just made a few researches about it: it's ayurveda so obviously very discussed, etc. etc. Comercial or scientific-ish (?) sites claim that it helps A LOT with inflammation and even fibroids:
- https://www.ayurtimes.com/kanchanar-guggulu-or-kanchnar-guggul/
- Ayurvedic intervention in the management of uterine fibroids: A Case series Dhiman K - Ayu

Also, results seem to vary greatly from person to person...

--> Just as always, each one will have to try and make its own opinion! If I can find it, I will add it to my daily regimen next month. Will report if anything good happens!

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james1947

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2018, 08:51:06 AM »

Kanchanar Guggulu

Can find on Amazon as Energizing Ayurvedic Herbs for Thyroid & Lymphatic Wellness.
$28 for 90 tablets.

Found here where I am living now in the far east.
$13 for 80 tablets
Thyroid and skin problems, also certain kind of cancers

James
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JS1991

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2018, 06:15:23 PM »

I ordered that exact thing from Amazon. I started taking it yesterday, I'll keep everyone updated.
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Cacogen

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2018, 08:47:27 PM »

Here's an ingredients list from an Amazon listing for Banyan Botanicals - Kanchanar Guggulu:

Guggulu resin (Commiphora mukul)+, Kanchanara herb (Bauhinia variegata)+, Amalaki fruit (Emblica officinalis)+, Bibhitaki fruit (Terminalia belerica)+, Haritaki fruit (Terminalia chebula)+, Silicon dioxide, Pippali fruit (Piper longum)+, Ginger root (Zingiber officinale)+, Black Pepper fruit (Piper nigrum)+, Varuna bark (Crateva nurvala)+, Cardamom seed (Elettaria cardamomum)+, Cinnamon bark (Cinnamomum verum)+, Bay leaf (Cinnamomum tamala)+. +Certified Organic

I suppose it's safe to say that the whole concoction contains a bunch of flavonoids and other polyphenols. The "guggulu" component is a resin from the plant Commiphora wightii -- the major flavonoid component of which is quercitin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4637499/

The "kanchanara" herb contains kaemferol.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/5468873_Antiinflammatory_activities_of_flavonoids_and_a_triterpene_caffeate_isolated_from_Bauhinia_variegata

There could be a significant amount of piperlongumine.

So definitely should have anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidant effects, at least.

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Gabriel

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2018, 03:57:34 AM »

Hey guys,

I saw the product you ordered, but they couldn't ship it to France; so I bought a cheaper version (5 bucks!) which seemed to have success in the commentaries, seemingly authentic and crazy-high dosed... And which was shipped for free from India! It will arrive around the 15th of november, and according to some (real? fake?) falks who are taking it, it also increase your metabolism and generate a great energy boost -very cool for sport and weightlifting... I hope I didn't buy a scam and that will have some effet; I will report too obviously!

Cheers,

PS: Cacogen, according to some website I read, it should also be "guggulsterones" which confers its amazing metabolism booster properties and inflammatory lesions healer to kanchanar guggul...
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- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

Cacogen

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2018, 03:53:13 PM »


PS: Cacogen, according to some website I read, it should also be "guggulsterones" which confers its amazing metabolism booster properties and inflammatory lesions healer to kanchanar guggul...

Yeah, I noticed the presence of that substance after I posted. Hmm ... phytosteroids ... might plausibly have some sort of effect.
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skunkworks

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2018, 08:54:22 PM »

Quercitin does have some legitimate science behind it, but it is usually in too small quantities when occuring naturally.

Cacogen

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2018, 08:25:36 PM »

Quercitin does have some legitimate science behind it, but it is usually in too small quantities when occuring naturally.

And supplemental quercitin in common forms has rather low bioavailability, IIRC. It *might* be the case that piperlongumine is increasing the bioavailability of the quercitin.

Also -- this is very, very wild speculation -- I would not be surprised if senescence ends up being implicated in pathological fibrosis associated with Peyronies Disease, with senescent fibroblasts being fibrogenic. I would have to look up the paper, but I recall this being suggested to be the case in pulmonary fibrosis. Quercitin + piperlongumine may be a sufficiently powerful senolytic, selectively destroying senescent fibroblasts. And maybe this concoction also contains fisetin, which was recently shown to be a fairly strong senolytic.
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Gabriel

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2018, 03:44:13 AM »

Love the way you talk Cacogen... That would be great indeed!!
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JS1991

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2018, 04:23:56 AM »

I have to say, this supplement smells and tastes very pleasant. Very fruity with lots of ginger and undertones of other spices.
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Paolo

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2018, 04:29:23 AM »

And supplemental quercitin in common forms has rather low bioavailability, IIRC. It *might* be the case that piperlongumine is increasing the bioavailability of the quercitin.

Interesting, particularly because some members are fasting, see https://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/2017/04/07/is-fasting-senolytic/
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Gabriel

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2018, 05:25:23 AM »

Very interesting Paolo! We'll have to shed light on this...

@JS: along most of my researches I've read that kanchanar guggulu had to be not yellowish powder (weak concentration and effect), but brown and smelly powder (seemingly like the strange-packaged one I ordered on Amazon)... So maybe it's a good sign??
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- 31 yo, very healthy lifestyle, Peyronies Disease with Erectile Dysfunction, pain, distal hourglassing & length loss since 09/01/17, still acute.
- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

NeoV

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2018, 10:41:00 AM »

It looks like it’s used for fatty liver, which is a symptom of high carb diets. There is one case of liver injury by taking this stuff but one case is nothing. Anyway seriously interesting, I’ll keep reading about this stuff tonight. Anything that helps metabolic syndrome will help Peyronie’s. Just like the famous CoQ10 study. But I am interested in quercitin.

Here’s an article on dupuyten’s and Indian medicine
Dupuytren's Contracture - Ayurvedic Herbal Treatment
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Gabriel

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2018, 01:01:54 PM »

Hello guys,

Update: I just received my Amazon crazy-cheap free-shipped from India kanchanar guggulu (god this is hard to write down)... The package seems quite professionnal after all (sealed, with a list of ingredients in English, etc.); even better, the tablets inside are made of very dark brown matter, also very smelly (like spices or berries).

I'm a little scared about starting taking it now, as I don't want to mess this soon with my hormones levels which I just found to be desastrous (they say kanchanar guggulu can have a HUGE impact on your thyroid, for the best of course, but I don't want to play with that yet).

JS, have you already started taking this stuff? What do you say about it man?

Anyone else??
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- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

JS1991

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2018, 04:11:49 PM »

I've started taking it, yes. So far no remarkable improvements, but no side effects either. I think I got the same brand as you (Banyan Botanicals) because your description of pill and packaging is identical to mine. But as far as I know, my hormone levels are good.
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Gabriel

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2018, 03:35:33 PM »

Hey JS,

My brand is Patanjali Baba Ramdev, not the same as yours (I was it and wanted to order it because it looked more secure, but they couldn't deliver to France), but I'm happy to see that our products look similar.

I'll let pass my total hormonal check-up + 5th round of PRP/HA injections (next week), and I'll try it too!!
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- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

Cacogen

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2018, 04:03:25 AM »


Also -- this is very, very wild speculation -- I would not be surprised if senescence ends up being implicated in pathological fibrosis associated with Peyronies Disease, with senescent fibroblasts being fibrogenic. I would have to look up the paper, but I recall this being suggested to be the case in pulmonary fibrosis. Quercitin + piperlongumine may be a sufficiently powerful senolytic, selectively destroying senescent fibroblasts. And maybe this concoction also contains fisetin, which was recently shown to be a fairly strong senolytic.

This is a suspect -- or at least highly simplistic -- line of thinking perhaps. Apparently in some bodily locations, a senescent (myo)fibroblast phenotype may actually suppress fibrosis:

Skin:
"Mammalian wound healing involves the rapid synthesis and deposition of extracellular matrix (ECM) to maintain tissue integrity during repair. This process must be tightly controlled, as its deregulation may result in fibrosis, scarring, and loss of tissue function. Recent studies have uncovered an efficient and parsimonious mechanism for rendering fibrogenesis self-limiting in wound healing: in such diverse organs as the liver and skin, the myofibroblasts that initially proliferate and produce ECM are themselves eventually driven into senescence, blocking their further proliferation and converting them into matrix-degrading cells. Myofibroblast senescence in skin wounds is triggered by a dynamically expressed matricellular protein, CCN1/CYR61, which acts through integrin-mediated induction of oxidative stress. We propose that the onset of myofibroblast senescence is a programmed wound healing response that functions as a self-limiting mechanism for fibrogenesis, and this process may be regulated by the ECM microenvironment through the expression of CCN1/CYR61." 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2984611/

Heart
"In this study, we presented comprehensive evidence for an essential role of premature cellular senescence as a mechanism to restrain cardiac fibrosis (Central Illustration). We showed that senescent cells accumulate in fibrotic myocardial tissue and identified myofibroblasts as the predominant cardiac cell population undergoing senescence. Mechanistically, we demonstrated that the cellular senescence program of CF is dependent on both p53/p21 and p16/Rb pathways, and that genetic ablation of Trp53/Cdkn2a resulted in diminished senescence that is associated with aggravated fibrosis and functional impairment of the heart after TAC. Conversely, induction of the cellular senescence program in CF by cardiotropic expression of the matricellular protein CCN1 had cardioprotective effects and led to reduced fibrosis and improved cardiac function after TAC. Collectively, our results revealed senescent fibroblasts as critical regulators of cardiac fibrogenesis and established the cellular senescence program as a potential target for antifibrotic therapies."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109716009153

But on the other hand, senescence may be driving fibrosis in IPF:

Lung
"IPF hLFs [human lung fibroblasts] have increased cellular senescence with higher expression of β-galactosidase, p21, p16, p53, and cytokines related to the senescence-associated secretory phenotype (SASP) as well as decreased proliferation/apoptosis compared with age-matched controls. Additionally, we observed shorter telomeres, mitochondrial dysfunction, and upon transforming growth factor-β stimulation, increased markers of endoplasmic reticulum stress. Our data suggest that IPF hLFs develop senescence resulting in a decreased apoptosis and that the development of SASP may be an important contributor to the fibrotic process observed in IPF. These results might change the existing paradigm, which describes fibroblasts as aberrantly activated cells, to a cell with a senescence phenotype."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28860144

Biology sure is complicated.
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Bubba dawg

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2018, 09:31:20 AM »

Some herbs can damage your liver , kidney and/or other vital organs. I know some of them cause my bowels to inflame. Most of them are diuretics so you have to drink a lot of water. I would be careful taking them. Very careful mixing them. They are not harmless
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JS1991

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2018, 03:04:57 PM »

I tried the "kanchanar guggulu" oral medicine for a month or two, didn't work.
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pey ron

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Re: Traditional Indian medicine for peyronie's & Case study
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2019, 06:59:09 AM »

@JS1991: a month or two is nothing. You need to do 6+ months experiments.

Thymoquinone from black seed oil seems to be antifibrotic as well.
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