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Author Topic: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates  (Read 4103 times)

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birdman73

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Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« on: October 18, 2018, 06:16:59 AM »

Hello,

This is my first post.  I am an American living in Austria.  45 years old...

Very brief history: I have (what I consider a major case, but probably minor as I don't have bending) Peyronies Disease, where I have a mass inside of the penis, with some pain, and it blocks perhaps 50-60% of the blood flow during erection to the last 1/4 and head of my penis.  I can still have erections, but they are sometimes painful and smaller than before (in the blocked area...so overall length is less).  This began in August of 2017 and have been to two Urologists and both have confirmed Peyronies Disease.  I tried Pentox as prescribed by the first Dr., but had a severe allergic reaction (broke out in hives over my entire body).  I have tried for the past 5 months the normal consumption of over the counter (although sometimes difficult to find in Austria) drugs such as suggested in the welcome thread here:

CO Q10 - 200 - 400 mg daily divided into 2 or 3 doses. (If over 40 yrs old, consider substituting the more expensive Ubiquinol)
Acetyl L-Carnitine 1.5 - 3 grams per day divided into 2 or 3 dose
L-arginine 1.5 - 3 grams per day divided into 2 or 3 doses


It seemed to have little to no effect as it still seemed to get worse over time.

I have been following a semi-primal diet for the past 3 years, but only for weight and fitness aspects (I would be considered fit ~6' (185cm) and ~170# (80kg)).  Didn't follow it too strictly (it's hard as I travel a lot for business and have many many customer dinners in foreign lands...plus Austria has some amazing food and drinks, but all very not carb friendly).  I started researching the Keto Reset Diet from Mark Sisson (who also started me in Paleo after reading the Primal Blueprint) as I seemed to feel better the more strict I was with it...less tired, not as hungry, slept better, more energy...  I started the Keto Reset about 5 months ago and also felt that the bump(s) were less severe or sensitive when I was serious about it.  But again, was not strict enough.  I also regularly do IF by skipping breakfast...

After seeing some posts on here about the positive affects of a Keto Lifestyle and IF, I am going to try a long stint of this and track everything.  I started again two days ago and the urine strips were saying this morning my keytones were in a good range for ketosis...  I know that as I get fat adapted urine strips won't work anymore, so I have a Keto Mojo ordered and waiting for me in Michigan when I go there in the end of this month...  Then I will also have blood readings.  I am tracking all my food and drink intake using Carb Manager on iOS and will be documenting it all in Excel.  I had also ordered Serrapeptase 250,000 SPU, Nattokinase 2,000 Fu, and Lumbrokinase 20mg at the same time from Amazon and will also be taking that to try and break down the fibrosis...even though I now read that this might have been a waste of $$.  Or maybe if things seem to be improving before I get there, I send them back...

If there is interest in any progress, I can give regular updates...  If not, then I won't bother except maybe at the end of some time frame if I do or do not see any progress, I just give a conclusion and close the topic...
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birdman73

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2018, 06:25:03 AM »

BTW...I have also tried:

  • Caster oil morning and night on penis...only seemed to make a mess...no affect on lump(s).
  • Vaccuum pump, but only seemed to increase the size when pumped, but no affect after.
  • The SonicCare method...but only seemed to irritate the area.

Most of these I did not try for very long as zero obvious effect or even additional pain afterwards didn't seem like a positive thing...

Also, I forgot to mention that in 2015 for about a year I had tingling sensations at the end of my penis...it was really strange and even had multiple STD and other tests to see if everything was ok and everything came back fine.  I wonder if this was actually the start 2 years before the lumps started appearing...  It was like I could never get comfortable and the penis was always irritated...  Thought it was from swimming in pools, or the underwear I was wearing (even tried switching brands, different laundry soaps, etc...).
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JS1991

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2018, 04:00:17 PM »

Hey, welcome to the forum! I'd love to hear of your progress, so please keep us updated. The only additional advice I can give you:

VED treatment takes a 6-12 months I've heard to be effective, so I believe you did not do it long enough. And in terms of diet, I would consider extending the intermittent fasting to the point where you're only eating in an 8 hour window, possibly less. In my opinion, for Peyronie's, the shorter the feeding window, the better. I plan on eating once a day after I do an extended (14-42 day) water fast. Regardless, I've heard specifically of masses like yours that block things in the penis reducing greatly from keto diet/fasting so it seems you're on the right track!
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zipolite

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2018, 06:10:51 PM »

Hey Birdman

Yes, please post your updates.

I am 7 weeks into 16 hr fasts and keto....basically slashed the bad carbs; sugar, bread, pasta rice. I have burned off all belly fat, got rid of bloating and flatulence, improved skin tone and lowered anxiety. Man how sugar messes up your body. The Autophagy process has been working as my skin tags are shrinking and falling off. I am feeling better overall.

As for the Peyronies, I have noticed a reduction in plaque  but not enough yet to improve the curve and dent. I am being patient with that. The first thing is to get your body functioning as evolution had intended, and the rest should take care of itself.

Happy Cannabis day

Zipolite


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Treatment;  Oral – ALCAR, L-Carnitine, CO Q 10. Diet; low carb and time restricted eating (6 to 8 hours). Manual traction, introduced VED Nov 1. Exercise regular

birdman73

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2018, 05:30:37 AM »

Thanks for the feedback.  OK, I will post my results.

Also thanks for the feedback on the VED use both here and in PM's.  I will look into it further and continue to give it a shot.

Of course the scientist part of my brain wants to try everything one at a time so I know precisely what was the cure (if something works) but at this point I would be beyond ecstatic if something does work and I could narrow it to a few things.  I just want to be back to normal...
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Bachelek

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2018, 05:48:33 AM »

Birdman73:
I also started a week ago with a sort of Keto diet.
Have diabetes 2 for about 15 yr. and about 2 kg overweight.
In 4 days! stopped with insulin, and 2 day after that with metformin.
Only by not taking carbs and sugar!
Success with your diet and don’t give up!
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skunkworks

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2018, 06:43:35 AM »

4 days?! Crazy fast.

I'm not surprised at all about you beating 'incurable' type 2 diabetes just with diet, I've seen first hand too many cases of it to doubt any longer. But 4 days is very fast.

Bachelek

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2018, 11:11:57 AM »

It’s indeed unbelievable
I don’t know how to attach a file from apple numbers
Or send me a pm with your mail so I can send it to you.
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TonySa

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2018, 02:26:26 PM »

I understand wanting to try one approach at a time to know if it’s effective.  However, it appears at least adding a physical therapy to your treatment regimen improved outcome w synergistic effect.  Also, treatments can take 6-12 months for effect so you could be trying one approach at a time for long stretches if time perhaps to no avail.  I’d at least try to add both VED (or traction) and low dose daily PDE5 inhibitors to your regimen.  What about xiaflex injection into the plaque?  Please keep us posted.
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Gabriel

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2018, 04:45:03 AM »

Agree with Tsanchez here for oral meds!

Yes, please report birdman, we're all very interested in your perspectives :-)!!!

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- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

birdman73

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2018, 06:26:21 AM »

Thanks for the feedback.

Just some replies, and then a status.

@TonySa "What about xiaflex injection into the plaque?"

Can someone give me a recommendation of who I could contact for this in the US?  I looked into a bit here in Austria and struck out.  They are very strict here when it comes to medicine (you even have to go to a pharmacy here for ibuprofen)...

I will also give the traction device a try more.

So...after one week into Keto, some observations:

- I am being very strict.  My net carb limit is 26g per day and only exceeded by 2 carbs one day.  The rest of the days have been much less.
- My Urine has shown a lot of Keytones since a week ago.  But, the readings, I think, are very dependent on the level of hydration you have. 
- Working out you really get tired fast.  But, I still do it to really try and burn through any Glucose I have in my body.  It also depletes the Keytones in the body I think so they register lower on the urine strips for a few hours after.
- Looking forward to getting my blood meter to see how it compares to the urine strips.
- The biggest thing is really mental to change the mindset to really consume a lot of fat.  And to get out of the normal mindset, especially with veggies, that "oh...I can eat these red peppers because they are a vegetable and vegetables are good..." ...  Also to maintain the right mix of protein....
- I am suffering a little bit of the Keto flu now as I think I am in the transition phase to getting fat adapted...
- I have also stopped drinking alcohol for this to try and not stress my body at all in addition and to make sure if I feel like crap it isn't the gin tonics or whisky or red wine
- I am also intermittent fasting, typically from 9pm until either 1pm the next day, or sometimes even dinner...maybe once per week when I go out for business lunches where there is not a suitable keto lunch available.  Or when on long haul international flights...but it will be sad to miss the amazing airplane food ;-)

I am trying to post an attachment of my daily log (.bmp) or embed a picture from dropbox but it doesn't seem to work...any suggestions?

As for results...  Of course I wish I could give you real hard facts on a reduction of the Peyronies Disease, but I "feel" like it is getting better...or at least not getting worse.  I think there is less pain and I also feel like it is reducing a tiny bit...but again it is COMPLETELY subjective...  But, I am going to definitely continue. 

It's strange, some days or times, it feels better than others...  Is this normal?

Thanks for the support.

-D
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Gabriel

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2018, 11:18:17 AM »

Hey Birdman,

Amazing account, thank you very much!!

I can relate a little to what you live, because it seems to be in some way comparable with what I have been feeling these last months, between low carb/high fat diet + IF + working out... God sport gets SO difficult... But keep on Birdman, you're doing the right thing and we are grateful for your experience!

Hopes your Peyronies is going to improve a lot.

Cheers,

G
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- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

Bachelek

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2018, 11:38:33 AM »

In EU there is a cardiologist named Aseem Malhotra, wich developed a miditerrain diet, named The Pioppi diet.
This is also a kind of Keto diet.
This man says that it’s very good for preventing heart diseases, reversing diabetes 2 and obesity.
The example of reverse diabetes 2 is just typing this msg.
I hope it does also something for Peyronie....
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birdman73

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2018, 05:53:00 AM »

Update: Oct. 29

So, I have been in Ketosis for 2 weeks now.  I am taking multiple urine tests per day and most are registering between 1.5 and 4...with only dips down to 0.5 after workouts.  I have had no readings below 0.5. 

I feel pretty good without feeling the "keto flu" anymore...  Still being very strict.  The biggest help is lots and lots of water, but also salt, minerals...  I find that  if I take a "post workout" salt and mineral pill this helps with any related headaches...

I am very cautiously optimistic, as I don't want to jump to conclusions...but...

I think it is working!  I no longer have any pain when either examining the lumps nor when having an erection.  I used to have significant pain during erection and I no longer have this. 

The size of the lumps also seems to be reducing.  I still have some restriction in blood flow during erection, but I am hoping it gets better and better.  I am feeling like more blood is getting to the head of my penis but still have a reduction in size after the area of restriction.  I have not started using any physical treatments (traction, vacuum, etc...)...

I will start a long business trip this week for 10 days which will be a food and drink challenge, but have a stop home during the weekend where I will pick up my blood meters and I am very interested to see a new level of analysis.  Also, picking up some keto related items that I am not able to get in Austria.  I will also get the Serrapaptase, Nattokinase, and Lumbrokinase pills that I ordered and will take those to see if they help too.  But, I am very excited about the results so far... 

Of course it could be a coincidence that it seems to be getting better right when I started this diet, but the more I research this diet, the more I am convinced that the improvement is related to the diet.

Any questions are welcome.
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JS1991

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2018, 03:30:09 PM »

Wow, great results! I've heard of very similar outcomes from multiple people. Consider adding intermittent fasting into your routine (8 hour feeding window every day; strict water fast the other 16) I think it will really help you out a lot.
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birdman73

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2018, 03:51:35 PM »

Yep.  IF is already part of my program...
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Gabriel

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2018, 03:41:56 AM »

WOW Birdman, thanks a lot for your this post, this gives us great hope!! What a willpower you have here, you can be proud of yourself!!!

So, after 15 days of keto + IF you already stopped your pain in erection ?... that's another mental step for me toward trying ketosis... I have tried almost everything for 13 months about it (meds, supps, diclofenac, essential oils, traction/VED, injections, diet, IF...) but nothing really totally works, and pain in erection does not seem to improve anymore.

Was it more or less your case (I mean, a pain that won't go in spite )?

And another important question: which sport do you practice, and how are the workouts now that you're fully into keto? I myself made the try: I do can swim in HIIT or do yoga with very few if any carbs, but it's impossible to do a full body 1h weightlifting session in such a state (tried during 1 month and a half, felt terrible all the time, couldn't progress anymore, was always exhausted). But maybe strength comes back when you really switch to ketosis?

Thanks for your answer buddy!!
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- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

birdman73

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2018, 05:51:17 AM »

Hi @Gabriel,

Yes, previously I would have some pain during the normal night erections that would wake me up.  But, when I really had an erection (during sex with my girlfriend or "good" night erections) that were quite painful.  This pain is totally gone (I specifically woke up last night having to pee with an erection with zero pain).

Also, previously, just examining the lumps (or my GF examining it) could be quite painful if the right spots in the lumps were pressed.  This pain is also gone (I have not tried to really press hard to make some pain happen).

I can honestly say now that the lumps are reducing in size.  I checked again this morning in the shower and the reduction is quite significant (maybe 15-20%).  It is still hard, but smaller.

As for sport, I ride bikes, run a few times per month, but mostly lift weights and swimming.  Before, I could go hard and heavy for an hour and swim 30 minutes (crawl stroke) but now I lift weights for an hour but MUCH lighter weight as I fatigue quickly (I could go heavy for the first few reps, but crash after 3-4 reps).  So, I reduced the weight and shoot for 10-12 and focus on slow controlled movements and strong contractions and this is working well for me.  I am completely exhausted after so I only do 15-20 minutes of breast stroke to cool down...  If I just swim, I can still easily do longer swims...  I also get tired quicker biking and know this is a lot of stress on my body so I am dialing that back until probably the spring. 

From my understanding, once fat adapted, strength should come back.  But, I also wonder if maybe the non-carb fueled body can have the same level of sport performance/muscles (and is it really needed for non severe lifestyles actually...like professional athletes, construction workers, etc...).

Hope this helps.
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zipolite

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2018, 06:55:24 AM »

Hi Birdman

Great to hear of your progress.

I am into my 9th week of being fat adapted. I am a runner and had similar weakness issues in the first 3 weeks. That passed and I am actually finding I have a stronger finish when running. I am also experiencing less post run muscle stress and fatigue.

I do sneak some carbs in before a run but those burn off quickly and I can tell when I am back to burning fat. I am doing 16 to 20 hour IF so that needs to be managed into my routine

As for the Peyronies, I am seeing improvements in the curve - minimal but going forward. I have seen a significant number of physiological changes since going fat adapted and all for the better.

Zipolite





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Treatment;  Oral – ALCAR, L-Carnitine, CO Q 10. Diet; low carb and time restricted eating (6 to 8 hours). Manual traction, introduced VED Nov 1. Exercise regular

JS1991

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2018, 10:02:21 PM »

In terms of athletic performance you can perform in ketosis once adjusted, but there's no getting around the fact that you need carbs to perform at the highest levels, so take that fwiw. And once again congrats on the results! According to my research it seems as though the keto diet kills inflammation and the fasting (autophagy) steadily eats away at the plaques.

Are you in the acute phase or the chronic phase, birdman?
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Gabriel

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2018, 03:54:16 AM »

Hey Guys,

Birdman, Zipolite, thanks a great lot for your detailed answers, which are fascinating to me. I take good note of all that info, which will certainly help me taking the step to keto, and help me finding the strength to maintin it!!

From what you said, two suggestions came to my mind about the sport/energy problem:
1) Have you tried to add BCAAs and L-glutamin to your regimen, especially around the training/effort moments? Both are absolutely great to reduce muscular catabolism and provide a huge amount of energy directly to your muscles without the smallest amount of carbs, and without the smallest rise of insulin. I have not come to glutamin yet, but I widely use BCAA when I do a swimming or weightlifting session (it's the only thing that prevented me from crashing after 3 reps when I was very low carb), and also when I want to lose more fat (it acts like a shield for your muscular cells and forces your metabolism to burn fat instead of protein, particularly when carbs and glycogen are missing).

2) So, Zipolite, you do say that we can actually sneak a few carbs in (like 40-50g?) when we are to produce a great and durable effort, and thus without threatening the whole keto system?? That would be great. Personnally, I have stayed pretty low carbs for the last 2-3 weeks, but I went back to using Vitargo mixed with my BCAAs when I do sport: it's the fastest carbs we know, i.e. they are almost immediately bioavailable, used a source of energy and quickly eleminated when you ingest them while doing sport. Well, the results were incredible, as I was able to progress in performance for the first time since like 4 months (when I went low carb); maybe that Vitargo could also be a solution for you guys, if it does not threaten the general ketosis mode.

Oh BTW, Zipolite, apart from long-term efforts (running, swimming...), after those 3 weeks into keto, have you also noticed a return of strength when you have to produce a great effort for a small amount of time (like when lifting heavy stuff, climbing stairs very fast...)?

Thanks again guys ;-)
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- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

zipolite

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2018, 06:23:28 AM »

Gabriel

I will start out by saying I am still early in the process of understanding fat adapted and performance. I am making adjustments as I go along.

I am probably at about 30- 50 grams of carbs daily. I am 5'6" and 129 pounds so that context is needed as 50 carbs on me compared to a 180 pound person is a factor. I am boosting keto with 18 - 20 hour IF and exercise - sounds like you are in the same area.

Yesterday I had about a 20 carb breakfast/lunch at 12 and then ran a 6k at 5:00. I was strong the whole run and picked up the pace for the last kilometer. I was definitely in fat burn mode the whole run. So did I burn off the carbs before the run? Maybe the carbs are a psychological crutch.

I do add stairs into the end of some runs (8 flights) and don't see any difference from pre-keto days. In the early days of adapting that would have been tough.

I am low weight and high reps in weights so i can't offer much there.

Hope that helps

Zipolite







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Peyronies Disease since July 2018 – 35 degrees to the left - treatment started Sept 1 

Treatment;  Oral – ALCAR, L-Carnitine, CO Q 10. Diet; low carb and time restricted eating (6 to 8 hours). Manual traction, introduced VED Nov 1. Exercise regular

Gabriel

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2018, 03:55:17 PM »

Hey Zipolite,

Thanks for your answer!

This is fascinating. And indeed, it helps a lot!!

I've been reading today about ketogenic diet, starting to gather scientific info, to understand metabolic ways... It does look like a solution that is worth trying for us; and I recognized a lot of phenomena you're describing throughout my reading. Carry on mate!

By the way, I've also been reading that the n°1 danger while going keto for a while is a chronic general acidosis, which can cause HUGE problems at every level in the body; of course, I assume you are all aware of these risks and know how to recognize and prevent them (besides, my memory tells me that the subject has already been discussed somewhere, maybe in Neo's "Peyronies & diet" thread).

About that, I've been thinking that taking potassium and/or sodium bicarbonate daily in order to keep your PH not so low (acid) might be a perfect solution... Has anyone tried already? Personally, thanks to Paolo's and Old Man suggestions (somewhere here), I've been taking potassium and sodium bicarbonate for like 2 months now, and feel great from it (no more acid reflux, less general inflammation feeling, perfect digestion that facilitates good sleep at night...).

Anyway, stay strong guys, and keep us updated about your progress :-)!

Bye,

G
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JS1991

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2018, 05:15:31 PM »

It's been a theory of mine that a small amount of carbs introduced pre-workout can be burned off instantly allowing intense workouts with minimal loss of time in ketosis. And on acidosis: be careful in keto if you're drinking coffee all day while intermittent fasting. This can promote acidosis.
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birdman73

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2018, 07:27:57 AM »

Hi Everyone,

Short update as I now took my first blood reading this morning.  Been on business travel the last three days with a 11 hour flight and awake for 23 hours on Wednesday and 13 hours of flying and driving yesterday.  IF for the flights and only drank a cup of coffee (just normal coffee, nothing added) and water.  The best I've ever felt flying actually...wish I would have done this 10 years ago...

@JS1991 - Sorry...I am not sure how to answer your Acute or Chronic question.  I am not sure what the difference means...

So, I am now at my parent's for the weekend and used my Keto Mojo for the first time.  My blood readings this morning were:

Ket: 1.2 mmol/L
Glu: 88 mg/dL , 4.9 mmol/L
G:K 4.1

My Urine test this morning was also registering in the 1.5 range so it was somewhat aligned...

From my understanding this means I am in a pretty good state of Ketosis.  Doesn't mean I am fat adapted yet, but I can say I feel great.  More "awake"...

I also got my supplemental drugs (Serrapaptase, Nattokinase, and Lumbrokinase) which may/or may not help with reducing the plaque...but I will take them anyway...

As far at the Peyronies Disease...  Still feels like it is improving, but still a long way to go.  At least the pain is severely reduced...and when I am going to the bathroom holding my penis I don't feel it as much which is a huge mental boost...like you aren't reminded about it throughout the day.

BTW...I found a very good podcast...  The Keto Answers Podcast...  Listened to it for maybe 5 hours yesterday during my travels.  Even thinking about if my results are positive to contact the MD behind it to possibly start a research program on the affect of a Ketogenic Diet on Peyronies Disease...

Still very cautiously optimistic... 
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Gabriel

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2018, 09:12:01 AM »

Hey Birdman,

Another great post. Thank you, and congratulations for what seem to be very promising progress!

On my side, I just finished reading extensively this amazing site about ketosis, which seems ultra-complete and very pedagogical : https://www.ruled.me/guide-keto-diet/

This, your posts and Neo's thread definitly push me towards keto... I think I'll finish my set of PRP/HA injection, let christmas/new year's eve pass, and go full keto on january...
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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2018, 10:41:19 AM »

On my side, I just finished reading extensively this amazing site about ketosis, which seems ultra-complete and very pedagogical : https://www.ruled.me/guide-keto-diet/

Thanks for the link.  You are right, looks like a great source of information. 
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NeoV

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2018, 05:37:13 AM »

Keto also cured my premature ejaculation that I acquired when my insulin resistance got bad.

The new girl I'm having sex with is 20, and ultra hot, so I wondered how that would go. I have zero problems with that and the sex is amazing.

My anxiety toward women and sex is just zero now, and I think all my anxiety since I was a kid was based on blood sugar / insulin, which no tests will even show (particularly if it's on the mitochondrial level). Of course I have also been going out every day so that is a big part of it. My heart used to pound constantly, all my life, and a lot with women and I used to struggle to get an erection. Now I don't feel my heart beat at all, and never with women. I get erections just talking to girls, so there's been quite a switch in how my arousal and physiology are working now. Things just feel natural.
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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2018, 12:48:25 PM »

Hey Neo,

It's good to see you on this thread man!

What you claim about keto diet here and there is absolutely great; I've been reading a lot lately about it, and feel more and more pushed toward this kind of regimen. I came across a lot of miracle stories, which remain what they are (ie uncheckable narratives), but when taken together provide huge hope all the same.

It's funny you talk about premature ejaculation, because I developped that symptom too at the very same time I developped my "CPPS" problems (+ hair loss, etc.); that was 6 years ago, when began what I finally identify as a "general strange inflammatory condition".

Do you really, rationaly and scientificly believe that your Erectile Dysfunction/premature ejaculation/anxiety were caused by insulin resistance and cured by keto? Also, I too noticed that I could feel my heartbeats at the same periods where I felt downs in my general inflammatory state; I attributed them to inconscious anxiety, but do you believe this could have to do with insulin levels?

Thank you, and thanks a lot guys for this amazing thread!
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NeoV

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2018, 08:47:48 AM »

Premature ejaculation is WELL known to be caused by (primarily) by insulin resistance. This is due to nerve damage to the penis and autonomic nerve dysfunction, among probably some other things. A google or PubMed search will show blood sugar and premature ejaculation links.

That's crazy you mention hair loss. I also got hair loss, joint pain, Peyronie's, and all this at the same time when the insulin resistance began. Now I refer to it as glucotoxicity, since no real test will show it but it's very clear it's related. Hair loss is something I'm unsure about...
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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2018, 03:54:22 PM »

Hey Neo,

Again, thank you so much for your posts, which make me explore a totally new universe of factors, explanations and maybe revelations about the conditions I've been suffering from for years now.

Just googling "ejaculation and insulin resistance" 2 minutes seconds ago, I effectively came across a huge lot of studies associating Erectile Dysfunction to insulin resistance, and I stumbled mostly on THIS: https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/43360900/Insulin_Resistantce_and_ED_.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A&Expires=1541713322&Signature=LE%2FsqHjef0YeYH8pzvw8X5%2BcdCQ%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DORIGINAL_RESEARCH_ERECTILE_DYSFUNCTION_I.pdf

--> This study makes, for the first time to my eyes, a direct link between insulin resistance, prostate volume, lower urinary tract symptoms, low testosterone and Erectile Dysfunction: ALL the symptoms that began AT THE SAME TIME 6 years ago, along with pubic/facial/cranial hair loss and a general swelling sensation in my lower abdomen...

So, I must confess I'm a little crazed and baffled: could all the mysterious symptoms I've been suffering from for years (in and outside stress periods, it has to be mentioned) just be related to some mysterious insulin resistance that couldn't be detected in my glycemic analysis? And so could that explain the fact that I managed to keep some of my prostate symptoms at bay by changing my diet over those years (less refined carbs, less cofee/tea, more veggies...)??

All of this is so tempting, I feel like I have to be intellectually super cautious here...

Any advise is preciously accepted, Neo and guys!!!
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JS1991

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2018, 09:48:49 PM »

Well, only one way to find out. Go full keto! Also, the link to the article doesn't seem to be working.
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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2018, 01:14:02 PM »

Another link to the study, this time functional (the previous one was on pdf): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24836928

Hey JS, going keto is now officially on my agenda; for various reasons I'll begin only in january; in the meantime, I would like to gather as much information as I can about the possible link between my symptoms and insulin.

Besides, this is not entirely clear to me yet:
1) Will a keto diet produce zero or insignificant amounts of insulin? What about the sweeteners (like stevia) I still want to use in my drinks or shakers, and that are more and more said to cause an insulin rise?
2) Do you finally have glucose circulating in your metabolism while on keto, or does the body directly used ketones to make ATP?
3) If you don't have any glucose circulating, why could insulin rises have negative effets on you and your Peyronie's?

@Neo: my other mysterious symptoms include :
- Localized, circular, massive and temporary hair loss on the head (apart from the general hair rarefaction): that began with everything else, and seem to have stopped since I changed my nutrition (less inflammatory food, more veggies);
- Insomnia with "electric muscular discharges" for like 15 - 20 min when I'm about to fall asleep: began almost exactly with Peyronie's;
- Some other minor things I can't think of now.

--> Have you ever experienced something similar, or that mysterious, that would have been caused by IR and cured by keto??
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- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

NeoV

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2018, 01:27:47 AM »

Your body will have very low amounts of insulin and will get enough glucose from protein and triglyceride conversion to glucose. The body requires zero glucose from outside

High insulin in the body lowers nitric oxide production and causes inflammation all throughout the body. Insulin itself is a disaster for the penis, and it alone causes the whole fibrotic cascade from what I have read.

Gabriel the falling asleep zaps and electric issues is insulin resistance. I had it so severe that my arms would flail at night, and now a friend of mine is developing diabetes and cannot sleep well at all due to neurological issues identical to this. Neuropathy is one of the earliest symptoms for most people with IR (despite most people having a degree of it).

Keto cured facial numbness, penile numbness, hand arm and feet numbness, which originally began as burning. My feet used to burn at night, and my father has this so bad that his feet are mostly numb at the bottom. My zaps stopped, and anxiety episodes which would results in my heart pounding. Also sleep apnea, waking up gasping for air and heart pounding. That is very serious and only happened to me when my IR was bad but is now cured. I always had arrhythmia since a teenager, that is cured as well and is caused by autonomic nerve damage. A healthy person should hardly notice their heart beat. Arrhythmia is very common in diabetics.
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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2018, 05:43:00 AM »

NeoV, have you tried either Glycine or Gelatin for IR control??, Glycine inhibits lipolysis.
Paul.
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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2018, 06:20:09 AM »

Neo, thanks again for your post!

Each step in this IR field is like a major breakthrough for me.

Doing some researches, I've just discovered that this zaps and electric shocks at night can be caused bt diabetic conditions; I also remembered that my grandfather dramatically suffered from the restless leg syndrome for like 15 years, which could also be correlated. And it also came back to my mind that when Peyronies Disease began, I suffered from strange numbness (more like tingling actually, I guess), in my hands and forearms when I would fall asleep; these are not very disturbing and come and go now, I believe thanks to much better diet + fasting.

I too had episodes of waking up and gasping for air, but mysteriously it seems to be gone.

Neo, could you please draw us a short chronology of how and when your majors symptoms (Peyronies Disease + those "general metabolic" ones) faded and disappeared while going keto?

Also, is there any way, any means of getting your IR tested and put numbers on all these parameters??

Again, thanks a lot :-)!!!

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birdman73

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2018, 02:23:43 PM »

Hi Everyone,

I am back from my business trip to the US and Canada and have a bit more information and curious tidbits to share...  It‘s been a discovery event for me...  BTW...thanks guys for keeping the conversation going in my absence.

I talk a little bit about my Keto experience first...  Some is first hand experience and some is from what I have read or heard since I started...  Want to help some not make the same „mistakes“ I did (although I put mistakes in „“ as I am sure I learned from it...).

First of all...you need to track your progress somehow.  My experience and feedback now tells me that the way to go is a blood glucose monitor.  The urine strips are easy, cheap, but only really work in the beginning.  Once your body gets adapted, then it seems to stop peeing out excess ketones (and your body probably is getting sorted on how much to produce).  But, in the beginning it is a good motivator to see the pad turn pink meaning you are producing ketones...

As for measuring ketones and glocuse with blood...I bought the Keto Mojo which does both and I am still tracking both.  But, from what I have heard and now know from my experience, the glocuse reading is much faster after eating and is also much cheaper to do.  So, if I were to do it again and you are on a budget, I would just get a simple blood glocuse monitor and use the pee strips in the beginning to see if you get into ketosis, and then use glucose the rest of the way.

I managed to stay in ketosis the entire trip and honestly I felt great.  I didn’t have the normal stomach issues I used to have and actually didn’t find it hard to eat (along with some days of IF).

I did have some issues of high glocuse levels and low ketones some days but now I think I know the cause.  I found out the Nattokinase and Lumbrokinase pills I was taking were full of Maltextrose and think they were spiking a response.

As far as the Peyronies Disease...this was good and bad.  I was and still feeling a much reduced lump and no pain most of the time, but some days in the evening, the lump felt more swollen and the pain returned.  So, I was playing with things and now think it was one of two things...both of which I will still explore.

I believe that it was either dairy as I had heavy cream in my coffee some mornings as well as cheese several of the days or it was after the few dinners I had a vodka spritzer or glass of red wine with dinner.  So, I think either dairy or alcohol.  I have avoided those the last 3 days and the pain has stayed away (even though I continued with the rest of my medications).  I will omit both for the next 5 days and if everything still stays great then I will try one and see if it has an affect...

I feel great on Keto and once you figure out how to eat, the food is great and not to hard to make...

Will keep updating the progress.

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JS1991

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2018, 04:01:46 PM »

Although dairy could be the cause, I have a strong feeling it was the alcohol. Let us know what happens!
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skunkworks

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2018, 08:17:25 PM »

Reactions to the sulfites in wine are quite common, but so are reactions to dairy.

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2018, 09:51:19 PM »

Gabriel yes you can get your fasting insulin tested. I haven’t done it but my case was so obvious based on my symptoms that I likely never will. Also know that metabolic disease begins in the mitochondria and I doubt one can test for that very well. Moreover, each organ has its own metabolic profile. Someone with Alzheimer’s has IR in the brain, but no blood test will show this.

Alcohol at a high enough volume makes my penis much worse as well as my IR symptoms.
Cheese and cream on the other hand are my staples! :)

I hope you stick to it birdman. The first several months were hard for me and I lost a lot of weight. Now it’s just normal for me and I feel great.
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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2018, 03:16:50 AM »

Had another business trip yesterday and fasted for 26 hours before taking my blood level again and 36 hours in total...

Hit my best numbers yet...probably helped by the huge grilled salmon filet and sautéed in coconut oil Brussel sprouts I had right before my fast...

Numbers at hour 26 when I returned home:

Glucose: 74
Ketones: 4.1!
G:K of 1!!

Numbers at hour 36 when I woke up this morning...

Glucose: 67
Ketones: 3.7
G:K of 1.3

Sorry...just excited for my personal record...

Penis feels great again!

Happy Thursday everyone!
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diehardpatriot

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2018, 02:21:57 PM »

Hey guys, I’m a bit confused here. I tried keto for about a month and a half. penis pain was the same however my wrists and ankles which usually are in pain after vigorous exercise (basketball) (wrists and ankles have been sprained in the past and my body never lets me forget) we’rent in pain. This is when I thought it may be the keto

Anyway, a few questions
1) how important is IF when doing keto for Peyronies Benefits? I plan on excesing a lot including basketball and weight lifting. So calories will be burned, lots.

2) how does IF add benefits and in what way is it different than just keto alone?

3)what do y’all mean by “feeding windows”

2)will I see benefits doing keto and eating 2 or 3 times a day and lots of calories?
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JS1991

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2018, 07:23:39 PM »

 Hey patriot! In my opinion IF goes hand in hand with keto in terms of benefits and will give you a boost for sure if you didn't do it in the past. Also, adhering to strict keto (as opposed to cheating a little on carbs) seems to be important as well.

IF adds benefits via autophagy, the body's natural waste removal process and subsequent natural stem cell regeneration. Autophagy activates in a state of fasted ketosis, which is obviously easier to achieve when already on a daily keto diet. Autophagy also won a Nobel prize in 2016, google it!

A feeding window for intermittent fasting is broken down within the 24 hours of a day. So a feeding window of 8 hours (a common variant of IF) would mean eat from roughly 1-9pm (or whenever you want) then consume nothing but water from 9pm-1pm. You essentially do a short water fast after dinner, while you sleep, and for a few hours after you wake up, then repeat. You can also do OMAD (one meal a day) and 24-48hr+ fasts, and eventually extended water fasts of 7-42 days if you want to get crazy. I plan on getting crazy lol.

Yes, I'd say you will see benefits. But I'm not a doctor, as you know. The beautiful thing about intermittent fasting is that it can help heal and clean your body out. In terms of your case, there is even a chance that it could help with erectile dysfunction. You can only find out for sure if you try! Regardless your health will benefit.
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diehardpatriot

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2018, 07:37:42 PM »

THANK YOU JS. Thankfully, I do not have erectile disfunction. Awesome!!! I’ll probably do IF with a 6-9 hour feeding window. Eating lots of high fat snacks so I am fueled for my workouts or to play basketball. The goal here would be for my pain to go away. If the lump goes down that’d be an added bonus. Honestly, I think we should all participate in our own little study to really see if this works. NeoV is already living proof as his pain is completely gone, his bend greatly reduce and his sex life back to normal. Dm me so we can discuss if that’s something you all would be interested in .
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TonySa

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2018, 07:51:09 PM »

I’d love to hear what degrees improvement one has in there curve or other measurements on keto and/or IF!
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JS1991

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2018, 06:08:47 AM »

Here is a great interview with Dr. Jason Fung on fasting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Aw0P7GjHE

The initial clip (first minute or so) he explains synergy between keto/IF. Worth checking out! I plan on buying his book (The Ultimate Guide to Fasting) and I'll share any gems I find with you all.

Edit: Here is another clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufnFuwB7aCA that addresses a big issue one can come across when fasting/keto: hair loss. It is due to nutrient imbalance and I think EVERYONE should arm themselves with this knowledge in order to perform the keto/fasting properly.

Edit 2: As a companion to the link I posted in the water fasting thread, here is the "Keto Cured My..." story thread that I just found: https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/7m4lb0/keto_cured_my_what_are_your_stories/ check out the "Fasting Cured My..." link in the other thread.
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james1947

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2018, 04:02:01 PM »

I don't want to broke the "Diet" party, but I will post my experience in the subject. I will try to make it short.

12 years ago, before even knowing that have such a thing "Peyronies" I had some problems with slightly enlarged prostate.
After a comprehensive research I found a doctor that was lawyer before that cured his prostate cancer without surgery and/or medications.
I bought his book, PDF download, $20.
Followed the book religiously, fasting, cleansing, expensive supplements, taking out all my amalgam tooth fillings (some of 40 year old) for more than 18 month.
For example, 7 days on grapefruits only. Water fasting for up to 48 hours.
Results:
* Very significant weight loss.
* Destroyed tooth, no any ceramic fillings hold more than 1 year.
* No any effect on my prostate and urinary problems.

Wrote him an email, asking for advice, maybe I am doing things wrong.
I got a prompt, long answer from his wife. I will just summarize it:
Quote
I am Dr. X wife, sorry to inform you that our dear... passed away...etc'.. from prostate cancer

And all this after he cured himself already from prostate cancer. How sad :(
The wife still sales the book, she lives now in Florida, surrounded by young beech boys I suppose, from the book incomes.

Just my experience :( Other may have much bigger success with fasting and cleansing  :)

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

JS1991

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2018, 03:53:14 PM »

Hey, james thanks for the input! Allow me to make a few arguments. First of all, I'm not sure about cleansing, expensive supplements or taking out all of my tooth fillings. I wouldn't recommend that. You mention that your only extended fast was on grapefruit juice, which would not allow autophagy to take place as a water fast would. 48hr+ water fasts I'm assuming might have done you some good, but how often did you do this? And this was pre-Peyronies?

In terms of these claims of autophagy eating cancer, well.. I believe if you look at how autophagy works, it's believable that it could in SOME cases help, but it definitely does not cure cancer. So I'm not surprised the man you spoke of ended up dying. Everything I've read of cancer-healing with autophagy states that you should fast as a strong preventative measure to cancer.
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diehardpatriot

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2018, 10:13:39 PM »

James, I gotta say super interesting and insightful story and sadly made me giggle, the irony... poor guy. I have to ask though, did the book include any scientific studies or evidence to support his conclusions on why his diet works? In our case with keto and IF, there are more than 4 scientific studies that support the theory that keto is beneficial for Peyronies.
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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Progress and Updates
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2018, 06:16:56 AM »

There is good evidence that keto inhibits prostate cancer. At least three studies with another trial ending soon in December this year.

Ketogenic diet in cancer therapy.
Low-Carbohydrate Diets and Prostate Cancer: How Low Is “Low Enough”?


The only cancers that do not benefit cancer are some skin cancers due to the BRAF pathway, but this has only been demonstrated in rats. Keto so far is becoming one of the most effective adjunct therapies to cancer, NOT because of autophagy, but due to the warburg effect.
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