PENTOX - Side effects

[MattFoley]

I don't know if taking Pentox with food aids in absorption, but I don't recall seeing anything that suggested you would get less of an effect with or without food. No idea. For me, taking it with food helps in avoiding stomach upset.

[John B]

I'll be starting Pentox within the next few days. I've noticed in this thread some people have said they felt anxious or aggressive on this medicine. I already have a very anxious disposition, so I'm hoping this doesn't add to this... Should one stop taking it immediately if they feel extremely anxious or aggressive? I always feel anxiety, so it would have to be intense for me to notice an increase in anxiety.

[MattFoley]

John, if a drug says the side effect is anxiety, sinus congestion, and/or constipation, I will get it. Taking Viagra or Cialis is nasal nightmare.

I'm taking 2,400 mg/day of Pentox, under doctor supervision, and yes, I get a very, very slight amount of anxiety when I take 800 mg. at one time but nothing so much to get me to stop taking the Pentox. My body got used to the side effects pretty quickly. I had to taper into Pentox early on because I was urinating so much I became dangerously dehydrated. One or two other people here have experienced excessive urination but to my recollection, it wasn't something that got them to stop taking it.

Just ease into it if you get any side effects and back off a bit until your body gets used to it. Obviously if you're having severe side effects you may wish to stop and speak to your doctor. Otherwise, don't stress, take it slow, and let the Pentox start doing its' job.

[swolf]

Pentox has caused me severe anxiety in the past but I have found ways to lessen that (Stabilium is a supplement that works wonder for me, for example), the most effective being just setting it aside for a good part of a year until I was in a better place in my life and mentally. I am also a naturally somewhat aggressive person and Pentox can add to that, but that has really faded for me as an issue. It is well worth the effort if you can find a way to handle it though. If you do get a level of anxiety you don't think you can function with, yes, I would stop immediately. But then keep trying to take it. I don't think you'll really know if you can handle it until you try it a few separate times. Play it safe and be honest with yourself though; don't force yourself to take something that is causing you very real problems.  

[funnyfarm]

Can you tell me how much Stabillium you are taking ?  I take it as directed on the package, but do not notice much if any effect.  thanks

[John B]

I've been reading these posts and anxiety seems a common side effect. I already have a hellish time with severe anxiety. Should I risk taking Pentox? If I take it and it increases anxiety I'll be in hellish torment.

Again, should I risk having a hellish spike in anxiety, or is it possible I won't have any increase in anxiety? If there's a possibility I won't have any increase in anxiety I may take the leap.

[swolf]

funnyfarm:
I take two capsules of Stabilium not every day, but close to it. I was taking two a day because "better safe than sorry" but have found I don't always need it that frequently, so I skip days now. I think it helps me a lot more than I even realize though, so I will continue with it at least as long as I am on Pentox (I'm expecting to be on that for at least the next year or two, if not more). I'm on Amazon's Subscribe&Save subscription with it which makes it slightly cheaper than their listed price, and I go through more than one box a month but less than two.

I've kind of been on automatic, zombie mode with taking Stabilium honestly, and haven't thought about my ingestion of it much. I actually think one capsule a day might work for me, and maybe I should try that.

John B:
If you have severe anxiety at the moment, I think taking Pentox could very well exacerbate that. In my experience it has sometimes acted as a fuel on a fire. But I've also started taking it on low level anxiety and I didn't notice an increase. If there's any way at all you can lower your anxiety before trying it, that might be better. Do you already have a supply of Pentox on hand? What are you doing to treat your anxiety?

For context, I have had severe anxiety to the point of dissociation (dissociation in the past before Peyronie's; severe anxiety both before and after) and I've also had experiences with Pentox that I would categorize as "hellish torment." I can now take it and function perfectly fine (there are still some noticeable effects), so there is always hope.

[John B]

I don't take anything to treat anxiety right now, but I do have some Xanax and Ativan, have never taken them though... And yes, I have some Pentox.

It seems like most here get anxiety on Pentox. Is it possible not to have any side effect of anxiety, or do a fair amount of people never get anxiety from taking it?

[MattFoley]

John, there are any number of things that can cause anxiety. Low testosterone is one cause. When you have a chance to get a full blood panel done, you and your doctor can make the determination if that might be a cause.

Personally, I would stay away from Xanax and Ativan.

[james1947]

I don't think most of the forum members got anxiety from Pentox.
Myself, I had never encountered anxiety. Other side effects yes until per George advice I take it during meal and not later than 18 PM, but not anxiety.

James

[pizzaman]

I haven't noticed any anxiety, but it helps that I'm taking Trental, the slow release pentox.
I'll second Matt's suggestion about the testosterone-anxiety connection. I had absolutely crushing anxiety last year. I couldn't take it anymore so I went to the doctor and that's when it was found I had low testosterone. I'm thinking a lot of guys who experience anxiety from pentox probably had some anxiety from low T anyway, and it was just aggravated by the pentox.

[MattFoley]

At the very least, there is nothing wrong with getting a full blood panel done.

Then, get a copy of the results for yourself and when you go see your doctor, bring the results with you and ask questions, especially if the results point to anomalies.

I had a panel done last March and I waited until recently to get a hard copy. Dumb. I noticed that I either had a B-12 deficiency or anemia or something else related to red blood count. My doctor never mentioned it!! Could my blood count have anything to do with Peyronie's? I have no idea, but I'm gonna find out. I'm gonna see my doctor at the end of the month and I'm going to give him a chance to explain his failure to alert me to this and without a reasonable response, I'm going to read him the riot act. Then, I'm going to insist on a new blood panel be done immediately.


Please, please, guys, I'm begging you, get a full blood panel done and get a hard copy of the results then talk to your doctor. If you have a question as to what they should check, here's what I recommend:

Testosterone Free
Testosterone Total
Thyroid Panels (T3, T4, TSH)
IGF-1
CMP Profile
Lipid Profile
CBC w/Diff profile
PSA
C-Reactive Protein
DHEA-sulfate
LH
Estrogens
Vitamin D


You may find some very eye-opening things about your health.

[George999]

Matt,  I would suggest you go easy on your doctor regarding Red Cell issues.  It is common practice among doctors to ignore marginally out of range lab reaedings.  And even with significantly out of range numbers, they often prefer to wait a few months and retest rather than risk tilting at windmills.  But, indeed, he should be doing a followup test on the blood cell counts.

As for the tests you are recommending here, they are indeed good suggestions.  I would, however, also suggest that guys here really learn as much as possible ABOUT these tests before having them done.  In the case of Testosterone, DHEA and Vitamin D, especially, most docs will tell you your numbers are "normal" even if they are way below optimal.  This is because the docs tend to go by the reference ranges the labs generate and many of those ranges are flawed.  "Normal" levels of Vitamin D, for example are an arbitrary number specified by the Institute of Medicine.  You should instead try to get yourself in a range specified by the top vitamin D endocrinologists.  They are the ones who understand what constitutes healthy levels of Vitamin D.  In the case of DHEA and Testosterone, you want to be in a "youthful range" not necessarily in an age adjusted range.  The docs expect that if you are 50, your T will be through the floor low and they will tell you that is "normal".  In fact if you T is in a healthy range, they will insist that it is too high.  So before you get the test, be sure you thoroughly understand what the results mean AND what constitutes LOW and what constitutes HIGH.  Also it is good to know what sorts of problems can cause either HIGH numbers or LOW numbers on specific tests.  The more you know, the better your outcomes will be.

[MattFoley]

George999:

Matt,  I would suggest you go easy on your doctor regarding Red Cell issues.  It is common practice among doctors to ignore marginally out of range lab reaedings.  And even with significantly out of range numbers, they often prefer to wait a few months and retest rather than risk tilting at windmills.  But, indeed, he should be doing a followup test on the blood cell counts.

Absolutely. The numbers on the red blood cell count were pretty off, not marginally and, you're right, they should be re-tested especially since the first test was done 9 months ago. The doctor never said a darn thing about them so I will discussing communication issues with him as well.


As for the tests you are recommending here, they are indeed good suggestions.  I would, however, also suggest that guys here really learn as much as possible ABOUT these tests before having them done.

Thank you. I would definitely suggest understanding these tests at least before the patient reviews them with the doctor, but yes, learning about them as soon as possible is the best strategy.


In the case of Testosterone, DHEA and Vitamin D, especially, most docs will tell you your numbers are "normal" even if they are way below optimal.  This is because the docs tend to go by the reference ranges the labs generate and many of those ranges are flawed.  "Normal" levels of Vitamin D, for example are an arbitrary number specified by the Institute of Medicine.  You should instead try to get yourself in a range specified by the top vitamin D endocrinologists.  They are the ones who understand what constitutes healthy levels of Vitamin D.  In the case of DHEA and Testosterone, you want to be in a "youthful range" not necessarily in an age adjusted range.  The docs expect that if you are 50, your T will be through the floor low and they will tell you that is "normal".  In fact if you T is in a healthy range, they will insist that it is too high.  So before you get the test, be sure you thoroughly understand what the results mean AND what constitutes LOW and what constitutes HIGH.  Also it is good to know what sorts of problems can cause either HIGH numbers or LOW numbers on specific tests.  The more you know, the better your outcomes will be.

Absolutely!! Couldn't agree with you more. Well said. Thank you.

[George999]

Absolutely. The numbers on the red blood cell count were pretty off, not marginally and, you're right, they should be re-tested especially since the first test was done 9 months ago. The doctor never said a darn thing about them so I will discussing communication issues with him as well.

NINE MONTHS AGO!  AND THE COUNT WAS SERIOUSLY LOW!  I don't think I'd be going back to talk to him.  I'd be looking for another doctor.  You are too forgiving!  - George

[George999]

There's a lesson here guys.  ALWAYS request a copy of the RESULTS of ANY AND ALL blood tests your doctor sends you to the lab for AND take that copy home and study it well AND DON'T BE TOO SHY TO ASK QUESTIONS when appropriate.  - George

[MattFoley]

George, you're so right. I was foolish not to get those results in writing straight from the beginning. Lesson learned.

[Sargonnas]

I think im starting to get some side effects of Pentox, like an slight headache at evenings. Nothing compared with penis pain though. It seems to be really helping with that!

[John B]

Anyone have rapid heart rate on Pentox? My doctor took my off beta-blockers and I have slight rebound effect, heart rate being 90's when sitting. If rapid heart rate is a common side effect, I may have to wait a few weeks until the rebound effect wears off.

[TooYoungForThis]

Matt, I show reading of white blood cell counts towards the bottom of standard range. Also I am slightly anemoc aince O am one point below minimum hemogoblin. Doea that mean I AM anemic?! Am I gonna die? How do I fox this?

[George999]

John,  I use Hawthorn for my cardio issues.  One of its effects is to slow and stabilize the heartrate.  Unfortunately the good Hawthorn products are quite expensive.  But they work quite well in my experience.  They also lower BP.  Here are a couple of good Hawthorn products:

http://www.iherb.com/New-Chapter-Blood-Pressure-Take-Care-60-Veggie-Caps/23376

http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Cardio-Peak-with-Standardized-Hawthorn-and-Arjuna-120-Veggie-Caps/46275

Be sure to read the Hawthorn warnings though before using either of these products and monitor your BP carefully until you are fully adjusted to them.

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-527-hawthorn.aspx?activeIngredientId=527&activeIngredientName=hawthorn&source=1

I am currently taking the New Chapter product and really like it.  I am planning to take a break from it, shifting to the Life Extension product for a while.

- George

[MattFoley]

TooYoungForThis,

You should compare your results with info online and certainly talk to your doctor about it. Last March, I too showed results that indicated possible anemia. There's no way I can make the claim that anemia or low white blood cell count has any correlation to Peyronie's but I'm positive in my gut that the medical community is missing key clues, indicators, and solutions to this horrific disease.

So from a purely arrogant perspective, the reason God allowed me to be afflicted with this disorder is so I can find a cure and lead all mankind to a greater destiny. Or, something like that.  

[james1947]

TooYoungForThis

What I know is low red blood cell count in anemia. White blood cells fighting diseases and not connected to anemia, but maybe I am wrong. Try to make a search by google, my Internet is too slow now to do that myself.

James

[George999]

Matt,  there is certainly a link between Peyronie's and blood cell anomalies and that link is the immune system.  It can happen in two very different ways.  1) The same immune dysfunction that causes immune system destruction of tissues of the penis can also cause destruction of blood cells, both red and/or white.  2) the fact that white blood cells are attacking penile tissue can sequester them to the degree that white cell counts are lowered.  - George

[Hawk]

Matt, I show reading of white blood cell counts towards the bottom of standard range.

I would not be concerned about this by itself.  Many people have counts near the bottom of the normal range.  That is why the normal range includes that count

Both my doctor and I have white cell counts that are on the low edge of normal.

[MattFoley]

Matt,  there is certainly a link between Peyronie's and blood cell anomalies and that link is the immune system.  It can happen in two very different ways.  1) The same immune dysfunction that causes immune system destruction of tissues of the penis can also cause destruction of blood cells, both red and/or white.  2) the fact that white blood cells are attacking penile tissue can sequester them to the degree that white cell counts are lowered.  - George

Well, I guess that clears that up. Unbelievable.  

Like I said, the clues are there yet too often, the doctors are clueless.

I'll address this with my neophyte doctor when I see him on 1/30.  

[George999]

Matt, Also bear in mind, of course, that Pentox and other drugs along with supplements can affect blood cell counts.  - George

[MattFoley]

Thanks George.

However, my blood tests were done before I started Pentox or any supplement so I think the low testosterone led to the lower blood count. I'm sure this has resolved itself but I will be insisting on a new blood panel to confirm when I see one of my doctors this week or next.

[Blacksammi]

I have been on 1200 mg of Trental for six months and had side effects of anxiety, poor sleep depression and exhaustion, with headaches if I drink alcohol. At the beginning of this month, another examination showed a decrease in bend from 65 degrees south to 40 degrees, which was very heartening.

At the examination, the Dr recommended I increase Trental to 1600 mg/day and commence verapamil injections each two weeks. As I had to travel a round trip of 800 km, this is not practical, but I have increased Trental to 1600 mg/ day slow release since 9th January.  Since that time I have had very severe headaches, as well as back and joint pains. The headaches require Endone regularly to control and as that cannot continue, I have reduced my Trental back to 800 mg/day.  So far after three days, headaches have decreased but not gone.

My bend, however continues to improve, so in some ways I hope the aches are from some other source. They have been very severe at times, have been mostly in bed in dark room trying to: reduce headache and : increase energy. Both have improved since reducing amount of Trental.  I have had both Australian and Rivers Trental and cannot tell any difference. Headaches have been with Australian produced Trental while waiting Rivers supplies.

My headaches were much more severe than erection pain ever was. The Peyronies has also caused a urethra blockage at the bend that requires ongoing attention.

Are headaches a commom problem?  Sargonnas is the first I have seen to mention it.
Blacksammi

[Phase]

Has anybody had diarrhea from Pentox?

I have tried to take Pentox several times, side effects have always been too much after few days or week. This time I have managed to take it 2x 400mg / day for 2,5 weeks already, and it really seems to be helping with Peyronies.

Other side effects are in control now pretty much (except that I've been in weird flu/fever for a week now, which doesn't feel normal flu and doesn't go away..) but..

..Now I got diarrhea! It's been constant for a week now already, stool is watery.. I have limited my food intake very carefully and I cannot think any other reason for this than Pentox anymore.


Any ideas how to deal with this.. I already take Pentox in the middle of big meals.


How ironic is it that the only drug that has effect on this disease, has to have the most side effects I have ever got from any medicine... this is hardcore stuff. :S

[MattFoley]

It amazes me how our bodies react so differently to a particular medication. I'm on 2,400 mg/day of Pentox and I have no side effects. Of course, if my bend would go from +75% to 40%, I would tolerate vomiting, diarrhea, and anything else I had to deal with to get that benefit.

[funnyfarm]

It almost seems as if the those who suffer side effects show improvement in Peyronies Disease, and those with no side effects get no improvement.  A cruel paradox.  

[MattFoley]

If that's the case, I hope I start uncontrollably vomiting soon.  

[Phase]

It almost seems as if the those who suffer side effects show improvement in Peyronies Disease, and those with no side effects get no improvement.  A cruel paradox.

That is true in many cases.. ironic. Just stopped Pentox today ( I haven't took any pill this day) and my stomach seems to be calming down a bit, it really went to pretty bad shape during last few days. It feels like Pentox is burning my bowels from the inside until it's all diarrhea... :S

Oh boy I have to find some solution to this.. I had pretty good improving with just 2,5 weeks of 800mg/day, and I really want to continue this. Perhaps I will try only 400mg (1 pill) a day once this settles out..

[MattFoley]

Phase, are you taking your Pentox with food? If not, you should take it on a full stomach to help prevent against stomach upset. When I first started, I took it on an upset stomach and it bothered my stomach. For whatever reason, my body got used to it and now I take it with my protein drink and coffee in the morning.

[Phase]

Yep, I took it with big meal in the middle of the meal always. It does not mess my stomach up instantly, but slowly I feel little upset in the stomach and seems that after week or two it escalated up to pretty bad..

I have to take few days off and see how it goes, I also have a flu going on at the moment and of course it can be the Coq10 as well - eventhough it would be weird because I have used that over 6 months with no stomach upset..

[MattFoley]

Don't quote me on this but I thought somebody here mentioned that you should suspend Pentox when you have a flu until it's passed. Also, for stomach issues, I take 150 mg of Zantac. That helped me when Pentox bothered my stomach.

[funnyfarm]

I stopped taking it as a precaution because it "may" lower white blood cell count (immunity).   In a week or two I will get my blood tested to see if that is in fact the case with me.  I may have been over cautious but I wanted to make sure I could overcame my illness as quickly as possible.  I am better now and taking the pentox again.   1600mg and my main side effect is prostate soreness.   The anxiety, insomnia, and heavy urination seem to lessen quite a bit after a few days.  

I would be patient phase.  Take one pill and slowly up the dosage over a long period to minimize shock to your system.  That is how I originally did it. For some of us, like me and you, it is a powerful drug.  

Also, if you have the flu, your body is already dealing with a lot of nasty stuff beside low blood cell counts, so I would not be too surprised you are less tolerant at the moment. I did not know this until recently but the majority of out immunity is derived from the digestive system.

[Sargonnas]

It amazes me how our bodies react so differently to a particular medication. I'm on 2,400 mg/day of Pentox and I have no side effects. Of course, if my bend would go from +75% to 40%, I would tolerate vomiting, diarrhea, and anything else I had to deal with to get that benefit.

Thats a lot of Pentox, Matt. Its double the maximum reccomended dose.  

[RoyHobbs]

2400mg a day is what Dr. Lue has been prescribing his patients. But proceed with caution if you haven't seen Dr. Lue. I am lucky in that I have no side effects.  

[Sargonnas]

Well if thats the case im interested in knowing if that huge dosage has any benefit over the standard 1200 mg, which its the one im taking. This stuff its ridiculously cheap with prescription and even without it.

[james1947]

Phase

I had sever side effects from Pentox and increased to 3*400mg just after almost one year of taking 400mg, after that 2*400mg.
My body get used to and have no problem now (if I am not taking the last one to late).

James

[RoyHobbs]

The increased dosage is meant to attack the plaques in a more aggressive manner, hopefully reducing and reversing any calcification, and eventually making them disappear. Obviously individuals will have varying results. Lue told me he had seen success in 90 out of 100 patients. This is not to suggest 90 patients were cured, only that improvements were seen -- some dramatically. Lue took me off almost every other supplement. I still take a multi vitamin, fish oil and echinacea, as well as cialis 5 mg (often split in half). But he wanted to allow the pentox to work on its own.

Also, he asked me to change up the VED treatment to 6 cycles at 5 minutes each for a total of 30 min. I know some have advised caution. I started with a med. cylinder, but the swelling was too much and I cut back to 5 cycles at 3 min each. However, once I switched to the smaller cylinder, and swelling decreased (less room in cylinder for blood to fill the skin surrounding the erection chamber) and felt comfortable going back up to 6 cycles at 4 min. each for a total of 24 minutes. I have a 85 degree upward bend.

I am a little over one month into the new treatment. I haven't seen any changes yet, but Dr. Lue said it can take anywhere between 3mos and 9 mos to see results from the higher dosage of pentox. I will update my progress after my 3 mos. followup in late March.

[funnyfarm]

RH this 90% success rate Dr Lue has recorded with 2400 mg pentox is very impressive.   I am curious, does this mean patients have to take the pentox indefinitely to maintain the results or can they discontinue after 9mo ?  For those of us with side effects like myself this is an important distinction.

[RoyHobbs]

He didn't say either way. But he did prescribe me enough for nine months. I would imagine he would reevaluate at 9 mos. or say if it hasn't worked at that point then there is no reason to continue. But this is pure speculation on my part.

I will add that my Los Angeles urologist took me off of the 1200mg prescription after 5 months. There was concern on their part for the long term effects of pentox, being that it's a blood thinner. They also had concerns about L-Arginine and taking that for too long, but to be honest their reasoning escapes me. I started back up on the L-Arginine anyway about 3 or 4 months after stopping. I stopped again in December per Lue's instructions..  

[Sargonnas]

Thanks for the info Roy. Hope you get results in some months.

[LMP]

Roy - do you take 6 tablets a day at seperate times or 3 x 2 tablets?

[RoyHobbs]

2 pills 3x a day and always after a meal.

[John B]

The only side effect I worry about is the anxiety. I'll be starting Pentox in a few days. I was just waiting for the rebound effect, of rapid heart rate, from stopping a beta-blocker to end. I've noticed some here say it gives bad anxiety. Would I know after taking the first pill if I'd experience anxiety as a side effect?

[swolf]

Maybe not the first pill, but within a few days probably. I wouldn't let that stop you from trying it. Just give it a shot, and if you do experience an onset of anxiety stop taking it. You will recover from the rise in anxiety just fine.