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Author Topic: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/  (Read 763 times)

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Reggie91

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I recently just signed up to this site, but wanted to share this new information in regards to combination therapy

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/

The anti-inflammatories taken for six months:

Group D: silymarin 200 mg/orally/twice daily + ginkgo biloba 250 mg/orally/once daily + vitamin E 400 IU/orally/twice daily + propolis 600 mg/orally/once daily + bilberry (Vaccinium myrtillus L.) 160 mg/orally/once daily + topical diclofenac sodium 4% spray gel/one application per day (2 pump strokes = 16 mg of diclofenac sodium), for 6 months;

Group E: silymarin 200 mg/orally/twice daily + ginkgo biloba 250 mg/orally/once daily + vitamin E 400 IU/orally/twice daily + propolis 600 mg/orally/per day + bilberry (Vaccinium myrtillus L.) 160 mg/orally/once daily + topical diclofenac sodium 4% spray gel/one application per day (2 pump strokes = 16 mg of diclofenac sodium) + PTX 100 mg (perilesional injection) twice a month, a total of 12 penile injections in 6 months.

Both these groups witnessed a higher level of reduction in pain, curvature, and higher scores on the IIEF-EF, international index of erectile function - erectile function.
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Hawk

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Re: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2018, 11:50:19 AM »

Welcome to the forum Reggie.  Also, thanks for posting because that is all that makes a forum work.  There is a lot of interesting information in your link that takes some time to digest.  It does appear that all groups saw progress. 

It looks like the groups were small (24) which can be a bit of a statistical concern.  It would have also been nice if there were a control group with no supplements to compare the results with natural progression, although it might not have been nice for that group.

I am going to move your post to the Peyronies Disease Treatment Section to the Board for "Oral treatments for Peyronies Disease" since it relates more to Peyronies Disease in general than just Erectile Dysfunction.  I will leave a redirection post right here for a day or to be sure you can find it.

Thanks again
Hawk
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hope794

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Re: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2018, 02:13:12 PM »

I am being cured from this doctor. I heard about many patients that were really cured from him with this protocol. I hope that he will do the same miracle for me too.. I just began the 1° injection and the oral therapy since 14 days. The doctor says that it requires a minimum amount of 6 months to see some reduction of the plaque.
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24 yo from Italy.Peyronie's probably since 2014.Since then,penis bends of about 10-15°, with a slight twist to the left.Moderate Erectile Dysfunction since 2 years and things getting worse.From pornstar-like to moderately depressed,but still fighting for a solution.

Gabriel

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Re: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2018, 02:21:55 PM »

Hey Reggie,

This is actually very valuable informations: thank you so much, and welcome to the forum.

Hawk's precautions are wise, but I tend to think that my multimodal anti-oxydant approach played a great role in my beginning of stabilization of the acute phase. I'm already taking bilberry, propolis and vit. E (along with other stuff like gotu kola), but after having read this study, I'm definitely going for ginko biloba and silymarin as well.

Just two questions for you guys though:

- In the study, they say "Propolis 600mg/once daily" ; when I read the instructions on my super-organic-concentrated-reliable propolis pills box, they say "18% dry extract of 300mg organic propolis per pill; take 5 a day, = 1500mg". --> So I'm a little confused here: Should I consider a 300mg pill to be worth 300mg of propolis, or should I consider that a 300mg pill = only 18% of propolis out of 300 mg = 54mg of "real" propolis ? I really want to duplicate the methods of the study, so please enlighten me if you can :-)!

- Where the hell can I find diclofenac 4% online? I don't think they sell it in France; already tried the equivalent (Niflugel), which burns the skin and works only for 2 hours...

Thanks for your answers guys!!

PS: just found this: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/234778078_Penetration_of_topical_diclofenac_sodium_4_spray_gel_into_the_synovial_tissue_and_synovial_fluid_of_the_knee_A_randomised_clinical_trial

... I really want Diclofenac along with my EO  ;D!!!
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- 31 yo, very healthy lifestyle, Peyronies Disease with Erectile Dysfunction, pain, distal hourglassing & length loss since 09/01/17, still acute.
- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

Hawk

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Re: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2018, 02:26:29 PM »

I am being cured from this doctor.

What doctor?

I think you mean treated, not cured.
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Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 68 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

skunkworks

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Re: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2018, 07:24:34 AM »

Thread on same treatment protocol here - https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php?topic=8923.0

hope794

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Re: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2018, 05:42:15 PM »

Gianni Paulis is the doctor who made this discover and published this paper.

I didn't trust him at first, but i knew many people who got cured from him (and i mean CURED not TREATED) with a reduction of the plaque of 100%. I don't know if they're all scammers, but most of this treatment is supplements which he doesn't profit from, and the PTX injections are not for everyone, some people don't need to do them according to the doctor.

I don't know if Paulis is a scammer or not, he says he can cure Peyronie's and he's in Rome, like me. So i thought: "why don't give it a try"? I went to him and he looked like a great doctor.. i hope he will not scam me. He's my only chance since i am 24 years old with Peyronie's and Erectile Dysfunction. He says that it gets years (2/3/4 years) to get a 100% reduction of the plaques, but every 6 months i will have an ultrasound to know if i had any reduction. The doctor says that if i'm lucky i will have a change in my curvature in the first 6 months or the first year, i should see an improvement.

I will bring news about this treatment here on the forum. I really hope that this is not a scam and that will work for me.............
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24 yo from Italy.Peyronie's probably since 2014.Since then,penis bends of about 10-15°, with a slight twist to the left.Moderate Erectile Dysfunction since 2 years and things getting worse.From pornstar-like to moderately depressed,but still fighting for a solution.

Gabriel

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Re: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2018, 09:00:16 AM »

Hey Hope, we hope so for you too; good luck :-)!

About diclofenac, I finally found a 2% gel version; I'll try to have my uro make me a compound RX for a 4% foam version next month... Will keep you up to date!!
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- 31 yo, very healthy lifestyle, Peyronies Disease with Erectile Dysfunction, pain, distal hourglassing & length loss since 09/01/17, still acute.
- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

skunkworks

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Re: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2018, 11:10:25 AM »

Diclofenac is just the main ingredient in Voltaren, which comes in a few versions, gel, cream etc.

Gabriel

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Re: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2018, 11:33:26 AM »

Yep, but here in France I couldn't find Voltaren in more than the 2% concentration, and only in gel form!

As I read somewhere around here that someone seemed to have better result with the foam form (and in 4%), I'm going to try to mimic it with a RX... We'll see!
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- 31 yo, very healthy lifestyle, Peyronies Disease with Erectile Dysfunction, pain, distal hourglassing & length loss since 09/01/17, still acute.
- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

JS1991

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Re: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2018, 03:27:09 AM »

Does is say anywhere in this study whether the participants were in the acute or chronic phase? Or do you know, Hope? I am going to be adding these things onto my treatment. Also, you're saying I can rub this: https://www.ebay.com/p/Voltare-Max-GEL-2-32-180g-Muscle-Pain-Relief-Arthritis-BRAND/1566644418?iid=202468441978&chn=ps on my penis with no ill effect?
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Do your homework before attempting a prolonged fast. JS1991 Timeline - Peyronies Society Forums

Gabriel

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Re: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2018, 11:34:14 AM »

JS, I assume that if participants were still experiencing pain and possible deformation, they were still in the acute phase.

And the Voltare max gel (2%, right?) is exactly what I am rubbing my junk with twice a day since saturday. No problem so far; at night, I also use my combination of EO/VO which is an astonishing skin repairer and promotes blood flow until next morning.

Moreover, I just got out my uro's office: he gave me a compound RX for a diclofenac 4% foam preparation; I'll have my hands on it friday, will let you know how it works!!
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- 31 yo, very healthy lifestyle, Peyronies Disease with Erectile Dysfunction, pain, distal hourglassing & length loss since 09/01/17, still acute.
- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

JS1991

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Re: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2018, 05:52:47 PM »

Excellent, thank you for the response. Have you seen a reduction in pain from the gel yet?
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Do your homework before attempting a prolonged fast. JS1991 Timeline - Peyronies Society Forums

Gabriel

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Re: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2018, 03:12:28 AM »

Well, for now, I'm not that happy with the Voltaren: it's efficient and handy, but lasts for like 1-2 hours while my EO/VO mixture lasts for at least 6-7 hours... and prevents hard flaccid with a great blood flow, which the diclofenac doesn't do.

I'm going to continue the test however; and maybe the 4% foam formula will work better!
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- 31 yo, very healthy lifestyle, Peyronies Disease with Erectile Dysfunction, pain, distal hourglassing & length loss since 09/01/17, still acute.
- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)

hope794

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Re: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2018, 06:11:56 AM »

Hello guys, here in Italy it's easy to find Diclofenac 4%.

Today i had the 2° PTX injection.. and i am going on with my oral therapy of antioxidants. Paulis says that i'll have my first results after 6 to 12 months approximatively.. let's see. I'll keep you updated.
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24 yo from Italy.Peyronie's probably since 2014.Since then,penis bends of about 10-15°, with a slight twist to the left.Moderate Erectile Dysfunction since 2 years and things getting worse.From pornstar-like to moderately depressed,but still fighting for a solution.

skunkworks

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Re: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2018, 06:25:11 AM »

What is EO/VO?

Gabriel

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Re: 2017 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530853/
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2018, 07:50:20 AM »

Hey Skunkworks,

It's essential oils / vegetal oils, with respect to some mixture I came up with and regurlarly apply on my penis with good results on a few parameters: Essential and vegetal oils 2.0 - Peyronies Society Forums
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- 31 yo, very healthy lifestyle, Peyronies Disease with Erectile Dysfunction, pain, distal hourglassing & length loss since 09/01/17, still acute.
- Treatments: all oral meds/supps discussed here; traction/VED; ointments (essential oils, diclofenac); PRP/HA injections (5/6 sessions)
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