Stem Cells & Adult stem cell injections for Peyronie's

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Lollaro


chefcasey

I like the prospect of growing a new penis, but most guys here wouldn't even need that.  I think just growing parts of the penis we with Peyronies Disease actually need, like the tunica or corpora would be in the pretty near future.

Jack1909

31 yrs old
Severe congenital curvature. 3 straightening surgeries
Big lump/stitch w/ left deviation after 2012 surgery
Severe ED after last one in 2014. Still crooked
Slightly improved w/ shockwave therapy
Looks like only one side of my penis works

Amitr

Guys, I just happened to read about Atala's work and came here to post if anyone had read about it.
As it turns out you guys have already.

I've always felt that stem cell research is probably the most promising hope for us and many people across the world would be benefited from developments in the field.

So if there's any way we can contribute to studies, many would be interested. It'd be great if we could have a clearer channel for communication between us and researchers like Atala, over here or on another popular forum like reddit, so people interested to contribute monetarily or as subjects would have an easier time doing so.

Secondly it'll help us have greater visibility on what we can expect in the near and distant future and plan accordingly.  

trevordd

Stem therapy is a really great ways to treat a huge number of diseases. From liver cirrhosis to Myelodysplasia... There are already some clinics like UCTC which have successfully implemented such a treatment method. It works really great.

james1947

trevordd

Can you give us some details regarding your connection to Peyronies?

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Lollaro



james1947

Thanks for the link Drew.
It seems that it will be good for Peyronies also
I just hope they will go fast forward with the research and not slow as everything with Dr. Atala.

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

itachi

Hi guys i think i found a stem cell treatment in HUMANS. Here is the link of the article.

http://www.cellztherapy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/URO-stem-abstracts-PDF.pdf

"DETERMING THE EFFECTS OF STEM CELL TREATMENT ON PEYRONIE'S DISEASE IN HUMANS"
by Dr Michael Zahalsky and al.

There are 5 patients enrolled in the study.
But you all need to consider that Dr Zahalsky injected the Stem Cell IN AND AROUND the plaque and not only around the plaque as it was the case for some guys in this forum. For those who had stem cell injected around the plaque but not in the plaque in this forum, it could be the reason for the poor results of your treatments. Stem Cell injection works as other intralesional injection for peyronie (verapamil, interferon, collagenase, etc.) it must be done IN the plaque. The other treatments are all done IN the plaque that's why we call that INTRAlesional injection. Dr Zahalsky did the injection In, Around and "evenly" in each corpora at he base of the penis.
-> As he wrotes :  "Up to 2.0 cc of our diluted PM−MSCs was then injected in and around the Peyronie's plaques. The remainder of the PM−MSCs was then injected evenly into each corpora at the base of the penis. "

I also want to tell you something else about Dr Atala's work. Tissue engineering aim to replace damaged tissue by new healthy tissues. I read ALL Dr. Atala's articles and what Atala tries to do is NOT developing a intralesional stem cell treatment for the acute phase of peyronie's disease but he tries to create NEW tunica albuginea that could be use for grafting surgery. Because currently all the grafting surgical treatments use grafts materials (autologous grafts, dermal grafts, synthetic grafts, etc.) that or not absolutely similar to tunica albuginea features. As Dr Carson and Dr Chun said in this article (http://www.nature.com/ijir/journal/v14/n5/full/3900864a.html) ideal grafts for penile reconstruction should have the following features : Pliable and compliant, Low antigenicity risk, Low infection transmission risk, Minimal inflammation, High tensile strength, Packaged, Multiple size available, Reasonable cost. But currently there is NO grafts materials that have all these features together. So that's the reason for the need of creating New Tunica Albuginea with stem cell. People prefers grafting surgery because plication reduce penis size. Patients are less likely to lose length with the grafting surgery but one of side effect can be erectile dysfunction and patient who suffered of erectile dysfunction before the surgery are more likely to suffer after the surgery. There is a few reasons of postoperative erectile dysfunction (ex. preoperative dysfunction, age > 60 years old, ventral curvature, etc. (sorry i forgot the link for the article, i will send it to you if i find it again)) and one of these reason is also the Graft Materials that currently exist, because as i said before, the graft materials we currently use to replace the damage tunica albuginea aim to have the same features as tunica albuginea BUT THEY ARE NOT TUNICA ALBUGINEA. In an article, Dr Atala said that if we can create new tunica albuginea it could avoid the side effect of the currently grafting materials. As he wrotes : " Currently, diseases such as Peyronie's are treated with plaque excision or incision and grafting of the tunica albuginea with materials such as small intestinal submucosa, fascia, and pericardium. All of these materials have drawbacks, including limited availability, donor site morbidity, and limited effectiveness. The use of a bioengineered tissue would be able to overcome most of the limitations of current techniques while allowing for lasting results". Dr Atala. Here is the article link http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3253692/

I really want to tell you an other IMPORTANT things.
Currently there is a grafting surgical treatment that can restore your (maximum) penile length and girth that you lost because of peyronie's disease. It's a grafting surgery based on Geometrical Principles. And this lengthening surgery can also be done on patients who suffer of preoperative erectile dysfunction with a simultaneous penile prosthetic implantation. But only if it's done on Geometrical Principles as it had be done by Dr Egydio, Dr Perovic, Dr Sansalone, Dr Djinovic, Dr Garaffa, etc.
Here are some articles.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2593786/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21098900
http://www.jurology.com/article/S0022-5347(10)02554-1/abstract
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2012.11590.x/asset/bju11590.pdf?v=1&t=iblesdwf&s=199c91d6e16e2964a352fa2edecc15387fc526ab
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2012.11582.x/abstract
http://www.iclinics.org/video/Real-penile-lengthening-using-geometrical-complete-circular-incision-with-grafting-and-penile-prosthesis-in-Peyronie%2526%2523039%253Bs-disease/67c3cc740193634654a8c74082d19b05

So if we can do New Tunica Albuginea (created with stem cell) grafting surgery based on Geometrical Principles it's gonna be the most effective procedure to treat peyronie's disease, to straighten and restore the initial penile size (length and girth) and erectile function that people lost because of peyronie's disease.

james1947

itachi

Thanks for the information.
From the list:
Quote...it had be done by Dr Egydio, Dr Perovic, Dr Sansalone, Dr Djinovic, Dr Garaffa, etc.
* Unfortunately impossible to do it with Dr. Sava Perovic as he passed away in 2010.
* Dr Kuehass name should be directly after Dr. Egydio as he is using his technique very successfully according to our forum records.
By the way, what is your connection to Peyronies?  Are you a doctor? Or Peyronies sufferer?

James
Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe ED.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Jack1909

If I had a plaque I would get in touch with the doctor of the study posted  below since is very impressive.
31 yrs old
Severe congenital curvature. 3 straightening surgeries
Big lump/stitch w/ left deviation after 2012 surgery
Severe ED after last one in 2014. Still crooked
Slightly improved w/ shockwave therapy
Looks like only one side of my penis works

kuaka

stem cells have much promise.  My daughter is having them used for liver work.

diamondback55



Background Basics: I had a mix of PRP & ADSC's (Adipose Derived Stem Cells) injected into the penis along with a special gel of growth factors. The full process took about a month and a half to perform. On the first trip I flew down to Mexico with the lead urological tissue engineer from Wake Forest University. I went under general anesthesia and had liposuction performed on my abdomen in order to harvest the stem cells. Over the course of about a month, they differentiated and expanded the cells into three different lines...Epithelial, Smooth Muscle, and Nerve Cells.
On the second trip, I was again put under general anesthesia and the ADSC's, PRP, and gel were injected all over the penis and that was basically it.

Positives: I went from having zero ability to get a meaningful erection (we're talking a hanging piece of scar tissue) to being able to get an erection while on Cialis (only 5mg daily). This in and of itself is remarkable. The firmness is decent and is hard enough for sex, although I'm nowhere near my pre-injury days. Additionally, I have met a girl and we've hit it off over the past month. We've had sex a few times and she had no clue that I ever had any problems until I told her a little about my history. For the first time in about 2 years I really feel alive again!

Negatives: The size is no where near where I used to be. I've lost about an inch in length and probably about 1.5 inches in girth. The ADSC's did not fill out the penis quite as much as I was hoping they would, but going from the dark depressive hell that I was in to where I'm at now...it's night and day. I believe that for people who have less scarring and shrinkage than I had and have a more localized plaque or indention, this procedure could be a near cure. Also, people who just have old penile tissue that needs a little rejuvenating, this could work miracles. Please don't misunderstand...I'm not calling this a cure, but I do believe that this has the possibility to improve people's condition significantly. Last negative: It's freaking expensive. We are talking down payment on a house expensive.  

Overall, I still will be looking forward to the day when they can do complete replacements of the tissue, however, I'm hoping/praying that this will hold me over until that day comes. If you have any questions about anything, please let me know.
[/quote]

I am participating in the Mexico trial myself this fall.  I make my first trip in Oct. 2015 for liposuction and my follow-on trip in Nov. 2015 for stem cell deployment.  Fortunately I am going with another patient so we are able to split some of the costs to save money.  I will keep everyone posted on the results.  If there is any advice you can provide on lessons you learned please let me know.  

Lucketts



Thanks Diamondback555.  I know that Wake Forest is on the leading edge of stem cell work.  Any idea why they couldn't/wouldn't  do the stem cell work right there at Wake?  I think that even though there is no FDA approval, that some urologists in this country are able/allowed to inject stem cells for peyronies.

Jack1909

I wonder if it's possible to get in touch with dr. Atala since my case is unique and it needs a special and very individual evaluation.
Diamond..How did you schedule your appointment at Wake Forest? Following the instructions provided on the website?
I would need some specific information since I would come from Italy..I would not take a plain and the find out that the treatment is not feasible to me.

 
31 yrs old
Severe congenital curvature. 3 straightening surgeries
Big lump/stitch w/ left deviation after 2012 surgery
Severe ED after last one in 2014. Still crooked
Slightly improved w/ shockwave therapy
Looks like only one side of my penis works

mike jones

According to this email replacement Erectile Tissue will begin being test by 2016

drew67

I wonder if tissue replacement could also fix venous leak.

mike jones

It should because the scar tissue is what causes the venouse leakage. Because the scar tissue can't expand enough to close off the veins to hold the blood in  

Jack1909

31 yrs old
Severe congenital curvature. 3 straightening surgeries
Big lump/stitch w/ left deviation after 2012 surgery
Severe ED after last one in 2014. Still crooked
Slightly improved w/ shockwave therapy
Looks like only one side of my penis works

Jack1909

Jack1909 - please use the Reply button at the top of the thread instead of the post Quote button. You have posted full quotes several times that we don't allow without editing. PM me if you don't understand.


I sent you a private message more than once..can you respond please?
31 yrs old
Severe congenital curvature. 3 straightening surgeries
Big lump/stitch w/ left deviation after 2012 surgery
Severe ED after last one in 2014. Still crooked
Slightly improved w/ shockwave therapy
Looks like only one side of my penis works

Lollaro

It's a series of great news. Also i , i'm interesting to Dr.Atala studies . Also i come from Italy  

itachi

hi guys,
i think we should clear things. Or we talking about stem cell injectiont herapy or tissue engineering using stem cells? Or both of them? Because one is more for the acute phase, the other more for chronic fibrotic phase and will be use as an surgery procedure (replace damage tissue by new healthy tissue). Dr Atala's work are the second one (tissue engineering). there is other urologist trying to develop the first one (stem cell therapy injection). So i think it's important to mention what we are talking about when we post something.

About tissue engineering, Atala and his team seem to be the only one to experience tissue engineering for the penis in the medical world (may i am wrong?)
I have to be septic about Atala's work. Someone on the forum got an e-mail response from Wake Forest in which it said that they will first treat soldiers (don't forget that their main budget comes from the army, about 200 millions $, that's why they'll begin with soldiers). Unfortunately for civilians it won't be available anytime soon ! So we'll have to wait for this ...
And about Atala's work, he said that to build an entire penis is that much complicated that it's not gonna be available in a near future. But they will begin with partial surgery, mostly smooth muscles and endothelial cells. BUT Atala never said that he and his team are engineering tunica albuginea, neither that they will for the moment. I read an article where he talked about an experience (tunica albuginea engineering) done by other urologists (not of his team) but on pigs (not on humans) (Tissue Engineering of the Penis).
What peyronie's sufferer need his a new tunica albuginea .... not an entire new penis. It's the tunica albuginea that is damaged in peyronie's disease. Ok if you have peyronie and corporal fibrosis (or other tissue damaged) yes ... you also probably gonna need other tissues replacement. But even in the case that we'll be still alive when this procedure gonna be available for us (LOL) they won't transplant us an entire penis if you it's only our albuginea that is damaged.

You know ... tunica albuginea seems to be (for me) a more simple tissue to engineered than the corpus cavernous which it's way more complicated as it includes the most part of the erectile tissues and erectile mechanism, which is complicated. We already have tissue materials (small intestinal submucosa, fascia, and pericardium) to replace damaged albuginea in a graft surgery but we don't have tissue materials to replace the corpus cavernous ... So yes i think tunica albuginea engineering seems more simple than corpus Cavernosum enginneering. But At Wake Forest they are working on smooth muscles and endothelial cells for the moment (i am not telling that it's not important ... don't misunderstand)
Atala said that they need a donor's penis, it's the only way to have a scaffold to build an entire penis (because they won't use a 3d print for the moment). But if we or talking about tunica albunigea, the scaffold needed is way more simple to get.




stopthismadness

Found this yesterday, I don't know if there is any merit to it at all but it says amniotic stem cells were used.

First Stem Cell Study for Peyronie's in Humans Shows Promise
Dr. Zahalsky Speaking at IV World Congress of Medical Sexology October 10th

CORAL SPRINGS, Fla., Oct. 8, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- Unless you were living with it, it's likely you were unaware of male sexual dysfunction until the late 90's when pharmaceutical companies started huge campaigns for treatment of Erectile Dysfunction (ED).

Erectile Dysfunction isn't the only form of male sexual dysfunction. A condition called Peyronie's Disease has gone largely overlooked, and existing treatments haven't met with much success. Dr. Michael Zahalsky, a Florida urologist fellowship trained in male sexual dysfunction and pioneer in the use of biologics in Urology, is on a mission to help men affected by all male sexual dysfunction. As a result of his work, patients are experiencing groundbreaking success, thanks to the help of a trial using amniotic stem cells and growth factors.

Peyronie's Disease (Peyronies Disease) is characterized by the presence of fibrous plaque that causes an abnormal curvature of the penis during an erection. Often, this can make it difficult and painful to obtain or maintain an erection. It's been estimated that up to 7% of the male population is affected by Peyronies Disease. This week in The Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, Dr. Zahalsky published his groundbreaking results using amniotic stem cells and growth factors for Peyronie's Disease. He says his research on ED has already been accepted for publication in the same Journal.

"Patients who suffer from male sexual dysfunction suffer from so much more than the inability to perform," says Dr. Zahalsky. "They're generally unhappier, and can suffer from lack of confidence, depression, anxiety, sleeplessness and more. Because Peyronie's can affect young men, it can have a damaging effect on their overall happiness. We had to find a better way to treat this."

The most promising results of the study included the effect of the treatment on fibrous plaque material found in the penis: 7 of 10 fibrous plaques disappeared completely, all patients had an improvement in blood flow, and curvature of the penis dramatically improved.

"We believe this was the first ever study on the use of injectable stem cells to manage Peyronie's Disease in humans," says Dr. Zahalsky. "We're thrilled with the early results from the study, and look forward to continuing research on this evolving field of urologic biologics."



First Stem Cell Study for Peyronie's in Humans Shows Promise -- CORAL SPRINGS, Fla., Oct. 8, 2015 /PRNewswire/ --

Lucketts



Thanks for the update.  Exciting news.  Please post anything else you find on this subject, as will I.

itsme

That is for sure the most exciting news I saw in this forum. I have sent an email to zurology.com about their treatment. Lets see what they say. Thank you a lot!

krazylord

Hi All,

This is very good news. This is my first post on here, so hi to everybody :)

I am a bit confused though as to whats the difference between this stem cell trial done by Dr. Zahalsky and the one that Dr. Irwin Goldstein is doing in San Diego with stem cells + PRP. Does anybody knows the details?

Thanks a lot!

Dared

This is great guys! I'm only 23 so there's a good chance I'll see something like this become a reality before I'm dead.

ao210021

What we also need to do is write a letter to the Japonese Urological association.

Japan just passed a low for reducing the time it takes for regenerative medicine therapies to be offered to patients. It only take 3 years I believe now (the fastest in the world).

Their goal is to become a medical turism destination.

There are 48 stem cell trials in Japan right now but not a single one on penile tissue engineering. The reason is that not many Japonese suffer from this.

I believe that if all of us sent a letter to Japonese researchers they will see the benefit and start clinical trials in this area as well.

lukewill

Have you guys not read about the progress that's being made elsewhere with stem research

Florida Urologist Publishes Exciting Results of Stem Cell Treatment for Peyronie's Disease

check this out:

Florida Urologist Publishes Exciting Results of Stem Cell Treatment for Peyronie's Disease

Pfract

everybody by now on the forum must have read about that, but the opinions vary. Thanks for showing the link though. Time will tell if this is just some other quack therapy, as james normally calls it.

Dared

Seven of ten plaques disappeared... pretty amazing. How long does it generally take for a treatment like this to be made available to the general public? 5, 10, 20 years?

krazylord

I've talked to Dr. Zahalsky and I am quite convinced stem cells will be the next treatment for Peyronies Disease, better than Xiaflex and others that we've seen. Also for ED, but this will more effective the younger is the patient. He uses amniotic SC and PRP and saw a lot of benefit.

Jack1909

I'm young, 25, but I don't have a plaque, just diffuse fibrosis. I wonder if it will be useful for me too.
31 yrs old
Severe congenital curvature. 3 straightening surgeries
Big lump/stitch w/ left deviation after 2012 surgery
Severe ED after last one in 2014. Still crooked
Slightly improved w/ shockwave therapy
Looks like only one side of my penis works

krazylord

Hi Jack,

I have both, and believe it helps with both, yes. Currently there are many studies, mainly for diffuse fibrosis and nerve damage in the corpora, but Dr. Zahalsky is ons of the first ones to do it directly into plaques as well. I think stem cell help in both kind of fibrosis.

itsme

Why don`t you guys go there? I just called to his office. It seems that they are doing the treatment already... I am trying to buy some to do the application in Brazil with Paulo Egydio. Unfortunately I expired my visa in 6 months while I lived in US, so I don`t think I will be able to come back so soon :-/

Jack1909

31 yrs old
Severe congenital curvature. 3 straightening surgeries
Big lump/stitch w/ left deviation after 2012 surgery
Severe ED after last one in 2014. Still crooked
Slightly improved w/ shockwave therapy
Looks like only one side of my penis works

itsme

So, I just came back from there.
He told me stem cell need to be yours, which I didn`t understand, because we see every day about amniotic liquid stem cell being used in everybody. He told me he has used it in a guy on my age (27) from belly fat, that didn`t work (but he didn`t give me more details about how many times was done and for how long).

He prescribed me two ointment that I will put the name here. I needed to take another injection to get erect for the exam, which I am very traumatized of. The other doctor Isaw before, gave me a lot of pentoxifylline injections that didn`t work at all too.
I have been taking magnesium, pentoxifylline, carnitine and vit e by myself, which seems to be helping. I am doing exercises and eating very well too. He prescribed me colchicine again and told me to not eat green stuff for helping to hold the medication and avoid diarrhea. He told me to do traction pulling my dick every day six times for 3 to 5 minutes.

I would like to see more people here doing the stem cell treatment.

itsme

But I need to say, he seems to be a very honest person. It didn`t look like he is doing that just for taking others money at all.

itsme

The name of the ointments he prescribed in Brazil are:
Contractubex
- cepalin 100mg/g
- alantoína 10 mg/g
- heparina sódica 50UI

Postec
- hialuronidase 150 UTR/g
- valerato de betametasone 2,5 mg/g

He told me to put it and after wrap my dick with that transparent plastic that we use for food.
He also told me to do traction pulling my dick 6 times/day for 3 to 5 minutes each time.
I started to take Colchicine again as he asked me for. I hope to not have diarrhea that much again :-/
As I told you guys another time a lot of people in my family had it, but I am the only one who was taking finasteride, I hope my case will not be worse than them because of that. All of them had a normal life: my grandpa, his brother, sun and my cousin (was born with it). My grandpa from mother.
I think I got it while sleeping in a nocturnal erection :-(

kuaka

"pulling" is ok, as long as it is not excessive.  It is one aspect of "reshaping".  Pulling just hard enough to feel tension on the plaque...affected area of the tunica...is all you want.  My opinion anyway.

yyy

I don't understand why he gave you these 2 oinments...to reduce fibrosis?
how many times per day do you need to put them?

itsme

Contractubex at night and Postec during the day. I don`t think it is to reduce the fibrosis. I believe it is to put an end in the inflammation phase, but I am not sure though, that is what I understood or believe.

itsme

I have seem some of you guys telling about real stem cell. What does it mean? And which studies are with expanded stem cell to some specific tissue and which noes are not? I believe by the results I have seem here, the ones that are done with pure stem cell without make them the three specific tissues are needed aren`t worth to.

Dared

Can someone pleas explain to me why this treatment is not already available? Does the fda have to approve it? And how long do you think it will be before it is made available?  

hof1988

To all gents dealing with Peyronies or Ed due to penile injury...

Has anyone on this forum been to the Zurology Clinic?

The clinic provides a "Placental Matrix derived Mesenchymal Stem Cell Treatment"  

I would like to know if anyone has tried this treatment with success



I did contact Dr Zahalsky and know this about the treatment:
1)  Injection cost $3,000
2)  Uses Ultrasound to Guide Injection to Plaque
3)  He is in Florida, but also works with physicians in Chicago who can provide the injections.  

Here are the links regarding the stem cell treatment he provides:

https://www.auanet.org/university/abstract_detail.cfm?id=PD22-01&meetingID=14ORL

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02395029

















itsme

It is actually available. Just zahasky's clinic. Please, let us know the results if u take it ;-)

yyy

there were already many clinics who offered them, for example a clinic in California, but the results were poor. I hope the reason is the unproper machine to purify the fat tissue. I believe they must be 100%pure and the harvest of fat tissue should be massive to be really effective

itsme

But zahalsy told he got 100% results in many tests. Or he has this machine or he is lying. I think the big diference is about cell diferenciation. They should harvest, increase the number letting them multiply, diferenciate them in diferent tissues, three I believe, and then inject it. Maybe Zahalsky is doing that...

Lucketts



Dr. Zahalsky may be on to something very big.  But it would sure help if they would be more forthcoming and informative in exactly what they are doing, how many patients have had it, the rate of success etc.  It's hard to undergo these stem cell injections just on a doctors sayso that they work.  Don't think FDA approval is needed for stem cell injections if they come from your own body.  But would be nice if NIH could do some clinical trials w/ stem cells vs. a placebo group.